Religion Debates and Discussions

Pretty sure even if Buddhists do believe in this sort of 'revenge reincarnation' it is not a reason to not feel sorry for black people or whatever.

The Bible is a terrible source of information as far as anything remotely scientific goes. That is not necessarily the case when it comes to the existence of God which is, to an extent, cemented in the various stories/teachings of Christ (who is known to have existed).

 

Well, of course the feeling is mutual since this debate is continuing.

I have already addressed this, but I will summarize my previous point. Does Evolution exist? Possible, however, I do not appreciate your accusatory tone. How did you learn about Evolution? From your parents, school, friends, by yourself? Tell me, when you learned about Evolution did it give equal arguments for both sides? Again, I am not discounting Evolution as being true or false but a young mind is impressionable, which I think we can both agree on.

It's interesting how you compare Christianity to Hitler. I see no relation between the two, or really the use of this statement by you. I never said Hitler wasn't racist; I was simply stating that according to the remarks about Buddhists that Christianity seemed more sensible. Of course, my statement was biassed, so I will leave it at that.

"This" meaning creating the universe. How can you be sure that Evolution was not created by God? Of course, you will have your own opinion on why it isn't likely, but for me there is already enough evidence to convince me that there is a God. But that's a whole seperate argument.

Sorry my reply to this for some reason did not most so I guess I will retype it up XD

I have said a number of times already on the stance of the Catholic Church. Yes, we believe that the Bible is infallible, but The Church also recognizes the stories that are meant to lead a person to a deeper understanding of God. Noah's Ark is a prime example of this. You might call that explanation convenient, however, I would like to mention that the Catholic Church had formed this idea before Evolution and Atheism become an issue. I am disappointed that you think The Church is shallow enough not to have answers for these basic questions. On the idea of Evolution, the Church believe that it is a plausible idea! You asked previously how can we believe something that we don't even know how it created the world? Well, were you there when the Big Bang happened? Are you 100% certain that Evolution is real? Of course you will have your answers, and I will have mine.

Actually, your second paragraph intrigues me. For one as a Catholic, I have always been told by literally everyone that it is okay to question whether Christianity is accurate or not. So no, it is not brainwashing then, especially when we are also taught that while we will have questions there is always an answer. You bring up Catholic schools. "Brainwashing children into following their religion" Well I would like to state that while Catholic schools are notorious for being strict, they are not horrible. You focus on one aspect of Catholicism and yet you ignore so much more, understandably. Did you know that the Catholic Church has literally thousands of organizations throughout the world? It has built schools, hospitals, and it funds charities all across the globe. Ever heard of the Sisters of Charity? They own almost nothing, and yet they care for the unwanted sick, whose illnesses are often contagious.

I would also like to point out that what you accuse Catholic schools of doing, Public schools do the very same thing. In almost every public school they teach about Evolution. They teach it as if it were fact where there is doubt in mind. Now I am not saying I don't think Evolution is possible, but I bring this point up to show that traditional public schools do the exact same thing. Can children think skeptically or critically about it? I am not sure, but what I do no is that children are impressionable and so if something sounds like an absolute fact, then they will not question it.

Often times when a person criticizes another person's character during a debate, then it means they have run out of arguments to use. I know you didn't mean it that way, however, I seriously advise you not to call a person's credibility out just because of a simple misspelling. I have been debating with other people on this very thread who haven't used proper spelling or grammar, but it is the argument that matters. I believe the saying is "You attract more flies with honey than vinegar."

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this is what ive been saying... eventually all of our theories would be worked out but without the idea of god and jesus being thought of we wouldnt have christianity today

 

Again there is no way to prove this, and if there was a way then for all you know it could work in our favor. That is why this speculation is pointless XD

 

here, ill make it clearer for you.

the bible CLEARLY STATES X

science CLEARLY SAYS Y

the catholic church, seeing that science is proving them wrong, MAKES UP Z in order to stay relevant

 

maybe because theyre smart enough to realize that, when humans have reached the maximum understanding of the universe, there simply isnt enough room for god anymore

 

I am sorry you think that, but I assure you that we will never stop believing in God

If you refuse to look or even read my points then please don't comment on it by pretending to be superior for some reason or other. Also if you actually read what I wrote then you would have seen this:

You would have also read how the Catholic Church had all of these rules that I mentioned in place before Atheism was a real issue.

Don't presume to speak for The Church which you really have no understanding of, not that you can't understand it but that you won't make an effort.

 

EVERY ATHEIST IN THIS THREAD HAS ALREADY USED THEIR ARGUMENTS. YOU ARE IGNORING THEM AND I DONT FEEL LIKE REPEATING THE THINGS I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR THE PAST FEW DAYS. loud enough?

 

Unless you start providing real arguments, then I am done replying to you and your senseless arguing. I have responded to the points that I am able, while you sit here saying how we are so obviously wrong, without doing much at all. I responded to your points earlier, however, you only looked at the one about Radiometric Dating. You swore at me, screamed (essentially XD), and have done nothing at this moment but try and turn this thread into a flame war. Just because you don't have a comeback argument does not give you the right to accuse me and others of ignoring arguments, when we clearly have been trying. Please, for the sake of this thread, stop.

 

my responses are in the quote

 

who made god

 

No one he's been here forever

 

dont waste your time in this thread

 

What your brother studied is not so much Buddhism, but rather their superstitions. The very ideology of buddhism is to be a good person. This includes helping those in need, but understanding that by doing so, some of their bad fortune may fall on you. Like for me, I will look at the ground when I walk to make sure I don't step on any small insects.

 

Good idea

 

Please make sure to remain objective while discussing and not to flame others.

 

I have an argument. It's called science. It's called evolution is proven fact, just like the earth is round, and you are delusional.

I don't accuse you of being brainwashed, for accused makes it sounds like it's your fault. But I do think many of you are brainwashed, and there's clear reasons for this.

1. It seems Gehenna is able to be a reasonable person. He can pick apart other religions, he can use logic and reason to an extent, with scientific ideas. But when it comes to ANYTHING that has to do with his own belief, he goes into full retard mode. He loses the ability to reason properly. Because he just can't handle the idea that God isn't real. That's brainwashing, and I've seen it in more person than one.

2. It's very hard for children who are taught religion by everyone they know in their early life, to break free from a belief later in adulthood, however ridiculous it is. My dad grew up with Irish Catholic parents, my godmother got sucked into an evangelical church for much of her teenage years, both of them have described it as brainwashing and I think they're very lucky to be free from that today and consider themselves atheists.

3. If Christianity is so right, why do parents have to teach it to their kids from a young age and force them to go to church? My parents never TAUGHT me to be atheist. They taught me science, my school taught me science, and part of that is evolution. They also read me stories, some of which included the Bible. This is a pretty good neutral environment for deciding what to believe in, as a kid. Are you telling me that, having been taught science and read a bunch of different stories, a kid growing up would say "hey narnia and Harry Potter and Greek mythology are all fake, but the bible man? That sht's definitely real." No, I thought for myself and I decided to be agnostic. I remember my parents disagreeing with me when I said that I thought God could be real, but they didn't push it. Nowadays, I've seen the horrors of religion and the sheer stupidity and it is my opinion that atheism is the only reasonable view to take.

"We have thousands of years of history to support us". Only 6,000 though, right? lol

You know what else various peoples have thought and done for thousands of years? Human sacrifice. The earth is flat. Women are property. The fact that people have been stupid and ignorant for thousands of years proves nothing. "A couple hundred theories". Evolution is proven scientific fact, that's why they teach it in schools. If you want to prove evolution wrong scientifically, go ahead. But first explain to me how evolution works, because I find that most of the time, creationists say they don't believe it, but they don't really understand it.

"You accuse of us twisting reality, when it might be you who is doing the twisting"

Like, why though? There's a clear-cut reason why creationists refuse to acknowledge reality and that's because it conflicts with deeply-held views. The young Earth theory was an OK one I guess until we dug up dinosaur fossils and learnt how to do carbon dating. So creationists come back with "oh yeah we lived with dinosaurs and hunted them to extinction" and "carbon dating is fake, it's a conspiracy between scientists". To anyone whose mind isn't poisoned by religion, that sounds ridiculous. But why would scientists and reasonable people twist reality? Please don't tell me that I don't want God to exist, of course I do. If I could know there was a malevolent being looking down on me and ensuring I went to Heaven if I did nice things, that'd be awesome. Weight off my back. But I can't live a lie.

When it comes to science, creationists have a clear bias towards their own views that makes scientific progress very hard. Whereas most scientists and agnostic/atheists only care about the truth. Please tell us how we're twisting reality, is it a conspiracy between all scientists? All people who've done high-school biology? Because that's as much education as you need to understand evolution, and carbon dating.

Do you want evidence on the existence of your own DNA? Or why the Earth is round? These are theories/scientific observations just as concrete as evolution.

When a debate is begun, on any topic, it's generally understood that all participants have a fundamental agreement on basic axioms of reality. Not so with creationists, unfortunately.

By the way, here's a shortlist of evidence/reasoning

1. Fossils
2. Bacteria evolving resistance to antibiotics
3. Natural selection makes perfect logical sense. I can explain this further if you want.

Where are you getting this picture of "secularists" from? Stop building a strawman.

I hate most forms (organized, pushing religion onto other people, anti-science, etc.) of Christianity and I probably hate most forms of Islam even more. At least currently, Islam is a worse religion, but it's all pretty crap.

I have a soft spot for Judaism I suppose, since I'm Jewish and most of my family are secular or not very religious Jews who are reasonable people. However I do know that a lot of Jews are religious fanatics and I've seen what troubles that's causing in Israel. At least Jews don't go round converting people en masse, though.

As for Buddhism, I'd say it's better than the rest because it's less based on the super-natural and more just an ideology and teachings of the Buddha, from my understanding.

Gehenna if you just followed the teachings of Jesus, I could not argue with that on a scientific level. If you want to live your life as he said, and you can prove that he said, then sure go ahead. I'll probably disagree with you on some of the aspects of your values, but that's normal in people. But it's just the fact that it's all based on LIES. At least I know my morality, my values, are only a result of reality and not fairy tales.

"Tell me, when you learned about evolution, did it give equal arguments for both sides?"

Tell me, ender dragon. When you learned your times tables, did you hear the argument that 10x10=106? Did you? I didn't think so. When you learnt about the shape of the Earth, did you hear from flat-earthers, in a serious way? I doubt it.

You CANNOT provide equal arguments for both sides, when there is no equal argument against evolution. Stop acting like they're different theories. Evolution is scientific fact, I don't care how many people don't believe in it. It doesn't mean they shouldn't teach it like its fact in school.

Creationist: Evidence of evolution please.
Reasonable person: *drops a massive stack of papers*
Creationist: Evidence of evolution please.
Reasonable person: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

LOL THIS IS GOLDEN. THIS GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT BRAINWASHING.

"We will never stop believing in God", yup you're brainwashed or something similar. I believe in what I can see and what science can prove. Whereas you have a blind faith, and even if God is proven to be a lie, you won't stop your belief.

https://www.brawl.com/threads/67483/

 

Bad start on your part when you start by saying that Evolution is a proven fact when it clearly isn't. Also by beginning with name calling you already sound desperate. While I am open to the possibility of Evolution your arrogance is making it difficult to take you seriously.

I am actually very glad you brought this point up because I completely agree that Gehenna is a very reasonable person! However, this works against you which is why I find it interesting that you included it. You seem to completely agree with the fact that Gehenna is good at picking apart religion, but you made an error. It does not seem like you have considered the possibility that it is YOU who has erred. We already agree that he is a logical and reasonable person, but then you say that when it comes to Christianity he is illogical. I believe that you are the illogical one in this statement because you seem a bit angry with religion so when it comes to reason you have no choice but to deny it. I could use your very same argument to argue that you are the brainwashed person.

Oh, I tend to doubt the validity of this point. You say it is difficult to "break free" from religion, however, you and multiple people on this thread are living proof that your statement is incorrect. The U.S is filled with tons of teens whose family is religious but they themselves are not. This statement says that they are glad to be free from their "brainwashing" but again by using your same logic I could say that they are brainwashed right now. You see, you offer no evidence to prove that they were being brainwashed. You only give thinly veiled arguments trying to sound like you know all about religious brainwashing when in reality this statement offers no proof at all to convince me of your points.

Well, I already argued a bit on this topic, but I guess you didn't read it so let me take another whack at it. You say that at school you were taught science and Evolution. Well, I definitely don't agree with schools teaching about a controversial topic like that. You might like to call it a proven fact, but to be honest that is a little childish to say when undoubtedly there is a ton of controversy around it. Now, I don't disagree with the possibility of Evolution, and if you knew a little bit more about the Catholic Church, then you would realize that it is open to the possibility of Evolution. Believing in Evolution does not make you an Atheist. Your last sentence makes me question if you really are open to learning anything. You call religion stupid, you have supposedly seen the horrors of religion, and then you say that Atheism is the reasonable view. That last part is okay but calling us stupid and a horror is not. Don't be in a debate unless you are willing to learn, or at the very least be calm and collected.

Again you mistake the idea that Evolution is a proven fact when in reality it's not proven. Science might have evidence to support its existence but I strongly disagree with the fact that it is "proven." Alright, you want me to talk about Evolution, fine. The general idea of Evolution is that fittest of a particular species will survive while the weak or unintelligent beings will be killed. Through Natural Selection these creatures will continue to adapt, and slowly, over a period of thousands or in some cases millions of years, they will differ in appearance to accommodate their new adaptations. Also, if you continue to ignore what I type then there is no point in debating with you. I can't say how many times I have said throughout this thread that EVOLUTION IS POSSIBLE. The Catholic Church has said on a number of occasions that it is possible as long as we understand that God was behind it. The Church has had this stance for many years...

You seem to have a mistaken view of God, who you seem to think is a being who delights in... What, watching you suffer? Sorry to break it to you, but if that's the God you think I believe in then you are sorely mistaken. Also, I can't really debate any of your points because I never claimed to be a creationist, as I already said that I am open to the possibility of Evolution. You say you can't live a lie, but again I could simply say that I can't live the lie if Atheism.

Ah! "These are theories/scientific observations just as concrete as Evolution" Sorry, but you messed up. By that statement, you just agreed that Evolution is as concrete as a theory or observation. I would also like to point out that by me saying that Evolution is a possibility so many of your arguments are nullified. You think you have come across this great reason why religion is wrong, but you should realize that the Catholic Church beat you to this many years before you were born.

I must say I am tired of your act. You put on this show of arrogance acting as if you are in control of all. Because you said so we should stop believing. I suppose I will continue with my dissection now.

I am positive that I never used the word "secularists" in any of this debate with anyone, so please don't try to put words in my mouth.

You know, you definitely did not need to tell me that you hate religion. However, I think you hate it more than you disbelieve in it, and yeah that's the case with a lot of people.

Not really sure of what you are referring to by mass conversion. If anything Atheistic views are what... Un converting people? What you say is a pretty strong accusation especially since you don't seem to know much about the Catholic Church. To summarize, we believe that we can convert not just through words, but through actions and deeds. Google the Beatitudes.

At first glance at this paragraph, I was actually thinking that perhaps you might have a soft spot for religion in a way. Upon further reading, I find that you are, once more, spurting out accusations that you, once more, can not prove. Because of your lack of proof regarding these "LIES" I can once again reverse the argument. I could say that I wouldn't want to life an Atheistic life because they are living a self indulged lie, but its okay because I know what morality really is so its fine. This is your arogance shining through once more.

I like your answer because it proves nothing at all. Math is fixed, it can not be changed or altered, however, Science is not Math. There is not an equation to prove the existence of Evolution, unlike in math 100+3 = 103. Moreover, your tone makes me doubt you even more. So far in your entire speech like post you have not offered a sliver of evidence supporting your claims. You just shout, act arrogant, and pretend that you know best. Well guess what its not working. Stop insulting the person for believing in religion and actually dig deep for answers.

What happened to you talking about making a decision for yourself? I believe just a few paragraphs above this one you were explaining how you came from a neutral ground home. Where your parents would allow you to believe or disbelieve. Is this so different? Actually no because we are talking about the same thing as above, except this time you are against presenting evidence for both sides.

"Evolution is scientific fact, I don't care how many people don't believe in it"

Ah... And there we have it. Don't call me illogical for believing in religion when you act just as illogical. That is exactly like Ken Ham when he said that no matter the evidence against creation he will never stop believing. And no... it's not a fact it's a theory. In light of information, I found an interesting no biased article by Pew Research which shouldn't offend either of us. Here it is.

I do believe you missed the context of the post. I will provide the visual evidence.

And my repsonse:

By that, I meant the Catholic Church...
Your "golden" point actually works against you by showing that you didn't even put much thought into this.

@GlobalistCuck if anything your lack of... Anything substantial furthered my beliefs. Not only did you present no real information, you made assumptions about what I believe, resorted to name calling, and generally seem a little off your rocker throughout this entire post. Your off putting attitude has made it difficult to have a real debate with you, but I am starting to think you don't want a debate where you might be wrong.

I think I will take a little break, my fingers hurt now XD