Religion Debates and Discussions

Worksalvation will lead you straight to hell. You've placed yourself under the curse of the law (Galatians 3:10 KJV). Repentance is to acknowledge that you are a GUILTY sinner (Romans 3:19-20 KJV), not making some commitment to stop sinning.

The people in Matthew 7:21-23 KJV aren't saved, because they are worksalvationists! Notice in verse 22 that they are mentioning their WORKS (we're not saved by works - Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Romans 4:5 KJV, Romans 11:6 KJV). In verse 23 you read that Jesus NEVER knew them (he didn't ''once knew them''; he doesn't have alzheimer like worksalvationists would argue). Verse 21 shows that they aren't saved, because they FAILED to do the WILL of the Father which is found in John 6:39-40 KJV:

John 6:39-40King James Version (KJV)
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verse 39 teaching once saved always saved and verse 40 teaching immediate eternal life by faith alone.

You can believe in Jesus' existance and love him all you want, but if you don't trust in his gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) by faith alone then you will end up in hell. The core meaning of Christianity is Jesus indeed, but the worksalvation pharisees have their works and self righteousness as the objects of their faith rather than the death, burial and resurrection.

 

No True Scotsman Fallacy....

 

Hi, I'm an atheist and I believe in God

 

am confuse

you making joke or

 

What does it look like?

Spoiler: I still haven't figured it out/I don't really understand sarcasm

I'm showing you how stupid the ''no true scotsman'' argument is.

 

Yeah, maybe could you explain the problem with the No True Scotsman argument a bit more? You haven't really shown me anything.

And also I try to assume that the Christians here aren't joking, because a lot of times Gehenna says something that I think should be a joke or sarcasm but he's completely serious.

 

Okay, let me explain it this way:

atheist
ˈeɪθɪɪst/
noun

1. a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Compare ''I'm an atheist, but I believe in God'' with:

''I'm a christian, but I don't believe in the Bible''

John 8:47King James Version (KJV)
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

''I'm a christian, but I believe that faith alone is not enough; that you also need works in order to know you're saved/stay saved

Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

''I'm a christian, but ... Jk I'm an ex-christian.''

1 John 2:19King James Version (KJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

Yes, it wouldn't be a fallacy if you could prove that Catholics aren't actually Christians. But they believe in God, believe in Jesus, and follow the Bible, right?

How are Catholics not Christians? Are you implying that Christianity was only created in the 1500s?

 

How the hell has this not been removed....
and how the hell are there 68 pages on this...

 

It'll take a thousand pages for Christians to listen to evidence, unfortunately

 

Just waiting for it to hit 69 and people to get offended xD

 

Okay

 

Forget denominations for a while. A christian is nothing more and nothing less than a saved person.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This is the gospel that saves. To get saved one has to trust in how Jesus, God in the flesh, died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day for the payment of their sins, salvation from hell and eternal life.

Catholics (and many protestants) don't believe that. They believe that you have to get water baptized, have to stop sinning (like Gehenna_beam), pray a prayer, etc. in order to get saved/stay saved. Many of them also believe in the heresy of ''losing salvation''. The reason why those false christians are all lost is solely because of the fact that in some way they believe their salvation depends upon their works rather than what Jesus did (died, was buried and rose again the third day).

So believing in God doesn't save you. Also, catholics don't follow the Bible. They follow the traditions of men. Many of their nonsense like the mass, the pope, Mary worship, confessing sins to priests, etc. is nowhere to be found in the scriptures. Catholics have a cathachism that contains their traditions. Ironically they (and many protestants like Gehenna_beam) don't believe they have a perfect Bible. They go around quoting Donald Duck versions of the Bible like the NASB of which no one (not even themselves) believes it to be the word of God. When you ask them about it they will say that only the originals were inspired, so their faith is in something they cannot know.

The word of God is to be the source of a christian's faith (Romans 10:17 KJV); it has to be received as God's word (1 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV) otherwise there is no faith. Everyone can make up a god or even a jesus in their own mind.

 

Sorry, you can't just redefine Christianity. A Christian is a person who follows and believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ. I don't really follow all this "saved" bullsht but it sounds like you think your kind of Christian belief is the only kind that's valid, which is the fallacy.

Well that's odd. Because 36% of Catholics read scripture at least once a month, and 62% say it's the word of God. So when they say "scripture" do they mean the Qur'an? Many Catholics do follow the Bible, I don't know what you're on about.

Are you trying to tell me that anyone who doesn't follow the Bible to the letter and take it 100% literally is not a Christian?

 

I'm not redefining anything. God defines what a christian is, not me and certainly not you. Christianity is all about receiving the free gift of eternal life through faith in how Jesus died for your sins, was buried and rose again the third day. ''My kind of christian belief'' is what the Bible teaches. It's called believing the Bible and comparing scriptures with scriptures; line upon line; precept upon precept. The Bible condemns worksalvation and says that those who try to be justified by the works of the law are under a curse (Galatians 3:10 KJV). These are the people that will end up in Matthew 7:21-23 KJV.

Catholics (and many protestants) can read their corrupt Bible versions all they want, but if their faith is not in God's word alone; salvation according to the scriptures then they will end up in hell. Also, not believing in the word of God is already a red flag:

John 8:47King James Version (KJV)
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

I think I gave you enough scriptures already that show what a true christian is. Go read those.

Edit: believing the Bible is believing a literal interpretation. And no, no being a christian is not about following the Bible 100% to the letter. It's about believing the Bible 100% to the letter.

 

No, the dictionary does, and I googled it

How come their Bible versions are corrupt and yours isn't.

Is this some kind of joke, or a typo or something?

Dude, Tom, you know what the problem is with arguing about which religion or religious sect is better than the others? It's all subjective and opinions and feeling based. "those guys are meanies, they're not getting into heaven". NONE of these sects have any evidence for their claims or beliefs, so there will never be a resolution to such arguments. The only solution is looking at all the evidence (or lack thereof) and making the only reasonable conclusion: God isn't real.

Just out of interest, where do you sit on the scale of Gehenna-crazyness? D'ya believe that dinosaurs lived alongside humans and stuff?

 

I know how the dictionary (and the world) define a christian, which is the reason why I don't call myself a christian anymore. I just go by ''Bible believer''. This matter is 100% theological. Philosophical and social stuff are totally irrelevant. You can quote anything you want, but the King James Bible still says that worksalvation is a one way ticket to hell.

Simple, take the 100% test. If a Bible isn't 100% perfect then it's not God's word. Modern versions and catholic versions make Jesus a sinner by removing the words: ''without a cause'' in Matthew 5:22. This would make Jesus a sinner and thus demolish the atonement. This writes off all those versions and their manuscripts. A perfect Bible version is promised in Psalm 12:6-7 and Matthew 24:35.

No, it's not subjective. I base my beliefs solely upon the scriptures. Now I do believe the Bible to be the word of God, because it's the only book that contains accurate prophecies. It also hits the nail on the head when it comes to humanity and it's scientifically accurate.

 

Yes, it is subjective. If it were objective, everyone would believe in it. Why doesn't everyone in China believe in the King James Bible? Because they have different views. It's subjective.

Also, can you give me details of these prophecies. That'd be pretty awesome if those prophecies were accurate, but I'm skeptical.

Hits the nail on the head when it comes to humanity... what does this mean?

Scientifically accurate... nope.

- Evolution. Duh.
- God cannot know everything, it is physically impossible.
- Noah's Ark could not have fit all the species of the world
- People living to be hundreds of years old?
- Resurrections?
- The Earth is older than 6,000 years, scientifically proven.
- A guy living inside a fking whale?
- You can't create a genetically variant population from just two people (Adam and Eve)