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mandatory proof of proof

Discussion in 'Suggestions / Ideas' started by StrikerSly, Nov 24, 2017.

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  1. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    The old staff system used to be way better, where if someone appealed a ban, the mod who banned the player (if it was a controversial ban) would provide proof + explanation for the ban to be 100% justified. It used to be very transparent, but now there's too many clouds in between the players and staff.

    TLDR; staff need to show proof to an appealing player against the ban unless it was blatant. Why the **** not.
     
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  2. Arabis

    Arabis Banned

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  3. GetShadowRealmed

    GetShadowRealmed What do I put here

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    Some players who report someone don't want to be known. It be unfair to expose a player which may end up leading them to being targeted or harassed.
     
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  4. Trogy

    Trogy Huncho

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  5. Havai

    Havai Former Mod | Warz

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    +1 took me over a week to get unbanned with video proof
     
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  6. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    Because we've been threatened to be DoX'd/DDoS'd plenty of times by players who we've banned (prime example: @iMingo). Providing proof reveals the identity of people who have helped contribute to the ban; sometimes we simply can't do that (i.e when it's user submitted proof and they've requested to stay anonymous) and sometimes we just don't want to reveal who made the ban.

    In my opinion, we should have a genuine reason for not giving proof (and we should at least have proof for a controversial ban on a regular, even if we don't give it to the person who was banned). If it's someone who's had a history of DoX/DDoS threats or has straight up threatened to do this to whoever banned, I think it's fair enough for us to withhold proof.

    With those rules in place, unless you're a twat who threatens over a video game, you'd get proof and it'd be fine. We don't seem to always do this though; not sure why.
     
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  7. Carsonn

    Carsonn #1 WarZ Looter

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    You're completely right; there are genuine reasons for withholding proof, but it can definitely be taken too far (in the wrong direction) and executed inefficiently.
     
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  8. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    I mean, to put it simply: when someone appeals requesting for proof, we should always either give them proof, or give them a the reason as to why we're not giving them proof. Unfortunately some staff withhold proof for no apparent reason, we need to fix this ^^

    EDIT: PM'd Roke asking if protocol can be changed to add this rule. Anything more (i.e requiring us to give proof) would be too much of a privacy risk in my opinion.
     
  9. Arabis

    Arabis Banned

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    Well can someone at least do something with me. My appeals get insta denyed I dont know what staff to talk to as noone can tell me as its protocal. 2 different smods are giving me 2 different storys and im not allowed proof. Legit what a I supposed to do
     
  10. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    its really not hard. just upload all the videos to an anonymous brawl hacker channel make sure any names are blocked out to maintain anonymity. cmon guys nothings changed, if someone REALLY wanted to ddos/dox someone when presented proof, the person would have gotten the whole staff team and booted them at the same time and it has been done in the past.

    its crazy how long it takes because theres absolutely no structure in this staff team.
    care to input, or do your job in any way shape/form?
     
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  11. Arabis

    Arabis Banned

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    Its been 3 months still havent been given a reason nor proof loving it.
     
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  12. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    If the reasoning for withholding proof is because it's user submitted, the only problem I could think of is that they're not in /poof. I.e, they'd have a recording of them fighting the other alleged hacker, and that hacker could remember the fight and remember who recorded it. Perhaps we might also forget to block something (like, we might forget to remove stats in the sidebar on KitPvP and the hacker could figure out who recorded it) - this could be avoided by getting several staff members and the user who recorded the proof to check it over.

    If the reasoning is because the person we banned has threatened to DDoS/DoX whoever banned, I'm not sure if it's worth our time having to go over a video blocking out stuff for a scumbag like that. That being said, I'd support banning anyone who threatens to DDoS/DoX forever, so I might be a little biased.

    I definitely agree we should always provide proof for controversial bans if there's no reason to withhold proof - it's already required for us to record controversial bans, so this shouldn't be much of an issue.
     
  13. Arabis

    Arabis Banned

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    Well guess you hate me then. I'm Banned for DOX when I didnt even do anything.
     
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  14. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    but the issue with this is that regardless if you upload the fight or not, any banned player will remember the point they are banned from. usually before they get banned they are mocked by the player and/or team of the player and even so if i get called out for blink by one team when i was actually lagging/grappling (believe me, ive been banned by both) id certainly remember all details of the fight. Uploaded proof or not shouldnt stop a player from targetting other players at all. and if a staff uploads in poof just block out any proof that it was that staff member and then it shouldnt be a problem against that staff member since its all anonymous.

    yes but thats the point of this thread. what if the player didnt actually commit those actions yet is appealing ? and no im not talking about anyone specifically. its happened to me many times before and of course the staff team was always in the wrong yet it took weeks for me to get unbanned. it just takes so damn long compared to how long it used to take to resolve issues as such
     
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  15. Squidward

    Squidward BEST WARZ SMOD NO KAPPA (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    +0, though it might help to justify someones ban. I would want to keep someone from repeatedly getting harrased/dox'd/ or ddosed.
     
  16. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    nothing will stop that anyway. a few bad apples shouldn't cost the whole community their right to review evidence to their own actions. its even in the constitution in real punishments that the defendant can see evidence. obviously this isnt real life, its mc, but it goes to show that its far more productive/fair in real life, why not do it here?

    also it used to be like that as well. back when there was 1.5k players on we still had to show proof. I remember once i false banned a kid for blink and he appealed demanding proof. I was forced to provide the proof and throughout my explanation realized it was ladder physics w/ shift, not blink and the mistake was corrected within a day.
     
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  17. Squidward

    Squidward BEST WARZ SMOD NO KAPPA (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    dude i can assure you there have been many times that we have stopped a player from constantly getting harassed or booted by not showing evidence.
     
  18. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    so far ive only heard of this one "imingo" guy whose pulled that stunt, where are all the other cases? the server gets 200 people on average a day and that happened just as often now as it did back when i was staff. with over 1k players
     
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  19. Trogy

    Trogy Huncho

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    Except for the IP list you posted, the multiple accounts you cheated on and got banned on, the countless ban evading.. yeah you "didnt even do anything". Next

    haHAHA
     
  20. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    12 by the way

    he didnt post **** lol quit lying to yourself. he sent it privately in a private ts and the list had no working IPs.

    he's talking about the initial permanent ban, if you were active enough and did your job you'd realize we've been having this conversation for over 2 months.
     
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