To Atheists...

I'm agnostic. I don't think that we can prove or disprove the existence of a god or multiple gods. I'm perfectly okay with either being true.

I find various flaws in both atheism and any sort of religion, which is to be expected. Obviously, neither of those types of people can know everything, which also means that there has to be something that we're missing that could completely change things. I think the problem with most people of religion, or atheists, is that they aren't open-minded enough. They're so close-minded and focus entirely on the principle of a god existing or not existing to the point where anything that conflicts with their beliefs is automatically false. There's a lot of considerable evidence disproving the existence of a god, but if these gods are in fact above our laws, how do we prove that it's not possible for someone like this to exist? How do we apply our knowledge to something that might be beyond our current comprehension and scientific practices? There's no absolute way of telling if either case is true or false, which is why I like to stay open-minded about both standpoints.

If we were created by some magical all-knowing being, that's amazing. If we miraculously became the one species on earth to develop into what we are now, that's cool too.

 

can god protect me from unexpected public explosive diahrea? i dont think so. did he cause it? i think not. not everything has to do with god gehenna. i swear he gets some sick joy out of debating about this. hes like the overlyreligious version of a vegan that cant seem to stop talking about veggies and good lord stop making things up

 

Tell me - what's your position on unicorns? Are you agnostic? Or are you certain they don't exist?

P.S. I fully respect agnosticism, I think it's infinitely more intellectual than religion I'm just trying to understand your logic.

 

If there's no proof besides "we haven't seen it" then it's completely possible something like it exists somewhere. Just because we haven't seen it, and might not be able to comprehend or prove the existence of one, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This can be applied to almost anything that hasn't been absolutely disproven.

With the unicorn in particular, the reason you might be so quick to discredit it might be because the unicorn is generally seen as a magically creature and is emphasized in multiple films, novels, etc. In my eyes, all that would qualify for a technical unicorn would be a horse with a deformity that caused it to grow a horn-like part out of its head. It doesn't have to be some magical creature with super awesome magical blood and the ability to wield magic.

 

My best guess (based on what I know and my experiences, and very little researched fact, to be clear) would be that religion could be more popular in low-income areas, as seen on attached maps, it could be that the average income of the areas causes lower education and also influences more people to be religious (since, as as been mentioned countless times on this and other threads, it's nice to have hope for a perfect afterlife if your current life isn't looking the best). I'd doubt that either religion causes lower IQ or that lower IQ causes religion, but that they're both caused by the same factor or factors.


To be fair, the maps aren't a perfect inverse fit, but there's definitely some correlation.

 

Don't get ahead of yourself. While you can't prove there isn't a god, you can't necessarily prove there is either.

I do, to some extent.

Yeah, the problem is that nobody is willing to try to understand the other side, including you apparently.

 

yes i mean technically it's possible it exists somewhere in the universe but what point is there in dealing with such abstract scenarios outside of a philosophy doctorate?

1. We deserve to be viewed as garbage

Yet another example of religion's abusive nature - it makes Gehenna think of himself and others as "garbage".

2. oh my f-----------king god you cannot be this stupid. Did you watch the DarkMatter2525 video on this? Me sending myself to hell is as stupid as someone saying "your money or your life" and then claiming it was suicide when I say "no" and they shoot me. I have not let down any anchor.

3. So he's never broken a promise... but he's never made any promises either? that's pretty convenient

"I care what is real". "I have my own truth". These are fairly contradictory statements, Gehenna. There is only one truth. If you cared what it was, you'd stop d--king around defending God and Christianity and take a good hard look at the facts.

Lastly, because I can't prove God isn't real... therefore he is? Well you can't prove that leprechauns are fake, so I guess they're real...

 

That level of ignorance will get you nowhere. A lot of religious people also have this same ignorance, but towards facts that atheists try to provide. Both of you are somewhat ignorant to the possibility of each other's standpoints having some sort of merit. I knew I wasn't going to sway any opinions because both atheists and religious people tend to be a bit hard-headed about their individual beliefs, but I didn't expect this level of sheer stupidity from the side of science. I instantly regret getting into this conversation. The point of dealing with such an "abstract situation" is because there always comes a time when that situation isn't abstract anymore. It's human nature to disregard something that goes against your own beliefs. We don't like to be wrong. This is exactly what happened when the Earth was proven round and revolving around the sun. It was such an "abstract situation" at the time until someone proved it to be true. Nobody believed it at first because they didn't want their current understanding of the world to be threatened.

Like I said before, neither side can be proven absolutely wrong or right. Both parties here need to sit down and realize that the other side's beliefs and what not shouldn't be trashed upon. You guys should acknowledge that it's possible for a god to exist, but it's also possible for it to no exist. Maybe someday, something will show us that a god is real or not. Until then, get off your high-horses. Jesus Christ.

This is my last constructive response on this matter. If none of you can understand it, there's no point in continuing.

 

What level of ignorance? Me not considering the existence of the Christian God because there's no evidence for it? There are infinite claims which are not supported by any evidence - should I sit around and ponder all of them?

I find the fact that you're equating the claims of *not believing in God* to *believing in God* to be immensely frustrating and logically fallacious. I don't need to consider the possibility of the opposing standpoint until evidence is presented because the opposing standpoint is a positive claim, and not only that, it is a ridiculous one.

I think the entire problem with your position stems from the idea that you think of this as a normal debate, or a political one. As if, I'm a politician who says raising taxes will help the economy and Gehenna/other Christians are politicians say cutting taxes will help the economy. In such a situation you would be right to point out that we should consider each other's positions, accept that there's no definitive proof but different ideas have merits and it's possible that either is true.

But this is not such a debate. You seem to have some kind of a problem with me behaving towards Christians as I would behave towards someone who thinks Harry Potter is a true story. I guarantee that if someone on this forum seriously told me that they think the events of Harry Potter are true and I said "no get out of here, you're 100% wrong", you would not come in here and tell me to get off my high horse. You would not tell me to stop being ignorant to the merits of his idea because come on. It's Harry Potter. We know it's made-up. The problem is, although you are not Christian you seem to have this idea that believing in the Christian God is somehow a reasonable claim that should be taken seriously. It's something I see a lot - you're agnostic but maybe you know a lot of Christians or you're just aware that most people in your society are religious so you think that it can't be THAT crazy, otherwise people wouldn't believe it? Sorry to burst your bubble but Christianity is exactly that crazy.

So if you're gonna think I'm "ignorant" because I don't treat ridiculous claims with no evidence with respect and ponder them as if they real value, then you should probably apply the same standard to everyone else on the planet. Go up to anyone, start a serious conversation about why you think Harry Potter/Star Wars/Lord of the Rings is non-fiction. I guarantee you, they will be "ignorant to the merits of that idea". And good on them. It's f--king ridiculous.

You then say it's human nature to disregard something that goes against your beliefs. Very true - this is why Gehenna struggles so much with the ridiculousness of his own faith. But since I assume you're referring to atheists like me, let me ask you - what am I disregarding? Am I disregarding the possibility that God exists? As I said, there is a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000001% chance that the Christian God is real but am I to be blamed for disregarding this? There is a 0.0000000000000000000000000001% chance that next time you step outside your front door you will be eaten by a whale, but does that mean you're gonna take a harpoon gun with you? Of course not.

You then talk about the transition of human belief from flat earth to spherical earth. This is a poor analogy because this is easily testable under the scientific method and not really a question of whether something exists. I do like to use this example, but more as an analogy for creationism which is more apt; creationism is similar to the flat earth theory in that both are easily dismissed by science.

You then say "neither side can be proven wrong or right" which signals to me that you're still missing the point of this debate by equivocating atheism with religion when it comes to evidence. Only one side NEEDS to be proven right. Atheism doesn't have to be proven right because it is the default setting. That's like saying that since we can't prove leprechauns exist and we can't prove they don't, let's just accept that we don't know for sure. Bullsh*t. Logically any claim (particularly ridiculous ones like God or leprechauns) should be rejected if they are without evidence.

You then say that we shouldn't trash upon Christian's beliefs. Funny, I don't hear this in any other form of debate. I've never heard a right-winger try and tell me that I shouldn't trash on his beliefs (I'm quite left-wing). Instead they normally actually back up their points with reasoning and evidence or terminate the debate. It seems putting ideas above scrutiny or criticism is a concept unique to religion, which is telling (see: the concept of blasphemy). That's not to say I'm gonna go tell every Christian I know that they're nuts but if there's a discussion about Christianity I'm gonna trash it as a belief because it deserved to be trashed. That's the free marketplace of ideas.

"it's possible for [God] not to exist"

this phrase here leaves me thinking... what??? Are you any kind of intellectual thinker? Let's put this into context, shall we?

"it's possible that leprechauns don't exist"
"it's possible that unicorns don't exist"
"it's possible that fairies and witches and wizards don't exist"

Well of course they don't exist!! You know, agnostics from my experience often like to paint themselves as the "reasonable" ones in an atheist/religion debate, the ones who don't have a side one way or the other and don't want to be too confident in their view, they just want to be chill and think things through and accept that we don't really know. This is a logical fallacy; I can't remember the exact one but it's something like appealing to a false moderation. It's like if you're Hitler's main opposition in 1930s Germany and you're against exterminating the Jews. Should you take your hard-line position and not compromise? Or should you be a "moderate" and say "how about we just exterminate SOME of the Jews...?"

Finding a middle ground is useless if one side is nuts. And the fact that you use the word "possible" to describe the idea that God doesn't exist rather than "incredibly likely" or "as close to certain as you can physically get" says to me that you have some kind of bias towards religion even though you have the appearance of a "middle ground". You seem to be implying that the chances of God existing are significant, even somewhere around the 50/50 mark, because you keep equating the two concepts (God being real and God not being real). Can you back this up with any kind of logical reasoning or evidence?

Finally, if not compromising on my position that God isn't real and being candid about the fact that people who have a serious faith in the Christian God as described in the Bible (and in particular, creationists) are either brainwashed, nuts, or imbeciles is being on a high horse, then I like it up here. It's logical. It makes sense. You should try it.

 

HELLO MY NAME IS TDADDY AND I SPEAK FOR THE MASSES WHO SILENTLY CRINGE AT THIS

1. YOU WILL NOT MAKE A RELIGIOUS PERSON NOT BELIEVE IN GOD BY ARGUING WITH THEM. MAJOR CHANGES IN A PERSON DO NOT OCCUR BY ARGUING BUT BY PERSONAL REFLECTION NOT AT ALL BASED ON ANOTHER ANGRY PERSdON'S OPINION

2. THERE IS A LARGE CHANCE THAT GEHENNA_BEAM IS TROLLING. WHILE HES CLEARLY A WEIRD DUDE, HIS OUT OF NOWHERE RELIGIOUS THOUGHTS LITERALLY APPEARED ONE DAY ON HIS PROFILE WITH NO REASONING. IF YOU ARGUE WITH HIM, HE WILL LITERALLY JUST DOUBLE DOWN ON "BUT MUH BIBLE SAYZ" OR "WELL BABIES SHOULD BURN IN HELL BECAUSE THEY HAVE SIN”

2 1/2. WANT TO KNOW WHY HES LIKE THIS IF HE ISNT TROLLING? HE WAS BORN INTO A RELIGIOUS ENVIRONMENT, AND NOTHING A RANDOM ANGRY INTERNET PERSON CAN DO WILL CHANGE THAT

3. THERE IS NO LOGIC TO RELIGION, SO STOP GIVING LOGIC. RELIGION IS BASED ON "FAITH," AND WHILE I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS SILLY, OTHER PEOPLE DON'T AND, AGAIN, YOU WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

4. THE XTREME FLAVOR BLASTED GOLDFISH ARE HANDS DOWN THE BEST TYPE OF GOLDFISH

5. I AM ACTUALLY ASTONISHED THAT THE MODS DO NOT DELETE THIS, PROBABLY BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ALSO WANT TO FEEL SUPERIOR TO RELIGIOUS PEOPLE BY ARGUING. I TOO HAVE BEEN THERE, AND JUST REALIZE THAT NOTHING, LITERALLY NOTHING YOU SAY WILL CHANGE ANYBODYS MIND ON THE ISSUE

6. MINECRAFT IS A COOL GAME

7. YOU ARE LITERALLY WASTING YOUR TIME IN THIS DEBATE, YOU ARE BASICALLY JUST SPEAKING INTO ECHO CHAMBERS FOR EACH RESPECTIVE OPINION (RELIGIOUS OR NON RELIGIOUS)

8. IN 6 MONTHS YOU WILL LOOK BACK ON THIS THREAD AND CRINGE SO HARD AT YOUR POINTLESS ARGUING THAT SERVES NO PURPOSE

9. 1.6 > GLOBAL OFFENSIVE

 

Dad, nobody is trying to change anyone's mind
At least not anyone who knows what they're doing

Also, in the wise words of my old friend, "flavor blasted goldfish taste like mutant cheetos"

 

they are but theyre really bad at doing so

this whole thread is basically

gehenna: babies deserve hell and dinosaurs lived with humans
everyone else: thats ridiculous because of XYZ
gehenna: www.creationistwebsite.gov.co.uk OR gods word is final do you all are WRONG. HA! CHECKMATE ATHEISTS!
everyone else: thats stupid logic and doesnt make sense (because religion isnt based on logic, no ****)
gehenna: i now believe in god even more because these unenlightened sinners have shown how detached from the lord they are

both sides of this “debate” are lost causes. gehenna will definitely not change A SINGLE BELIEF OF HIS and the atheists are just as unlikely to be swayed by any amount of bible verses and flawed “logic” of gehennas

...which begs the question: WHAT THE **** IS EVERYONE STILL DOING ON THIS THREAD?

god damn, you arent arguing with gehenna, you are literally just explaining why you are atheist/religious to feel more confident in why you are whatever you are by using a religious nut like gehenna to make assumptions on religious as a whole (ehvahn my main brother you are the only exception to this because you actually know what youre talking about)

TL;DR nobody here can FOR SURE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT prove or disprove a god, so stop trying. come to your own conclusions based on whatever you want and dont try to force your beliefs on others.

this whole thread reeks of r/atheism and christian facebook pages

 

Telling people to get off it, apparently

 

yeah im also wasting my time

 

that's what a debate is.. what do u mean wtf is everyone still doing here lmao? pretentious arent you?

 

My two cents are that you should be able to believe what you like, and you shouldn't force your beliefs or non beliefs to others. That being said I also think doubting science for a more religious idea is quite stupid such as earth being made 4000 years ago.