To Atheists...

I don't have an infallible standard to base mortality on. I try my best to do what I think is right and to help others. That's all we can do, really.

OK do explain to me what you think a Christian is. Because the dictionary definition I just checked is someone who is a believer in Christianity, and that's exactly what I think it is. Anyone who calls them self a Christian, and follows the teaching of Jesus/The Bible is, in my book, a Christian. You're not one of those annoying sects who considers themselves and only themselves to be the true members of the religion? Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals... they're all Christians.

Most Western countries secular in theory. I never denied this. But unfortunately in many countries, such as the US and the UK, they are not so secular in practice. I think it was the Governor of Kentucky who declared 2017 the Year of the Bible in their schooling system. And in the UK, members of the clergy are guaranteed seats in the House of Lords.
And then you give, what is in my view, a misrepresentation of atheism in the US

1. If the mainstream media takes sides against Christianity, it's almost always because the Christians are doing something unconstitutional or illegal. It's not like they're attacking Christians for the sake of it. And let's not forget FOX News, who are always there to take the side of the Christian even if they're clearly in the wrong. "Tides go in, tides go out, you can't explain that!"
2. Atheists aren't just a minority in the Bible Belt. They are a minority literally everywhere. In the most liberal cities in America, atheists are a minority.
3. Unfortunately for every case of persecution that makes it to the news and is resolved, there are five that don't.

Wait so Noah's kids could've been brown... and their descendants be white or black? Because of... genetic mutations? THATS EVOLUTION GEHENNA. THAT. IS. EVOLUTION. PRAISE THE LORD.

 

If you have no infallible standard, you have no ground to judge other people their morality. Easy as that.

To answer your question, a christian is a saved person. Nothing more, nothing less. And a saved person is someone who believes the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). And to believe the gospel means to rely 100% on as it is written and not to add or take away from it.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

To clarify the highlighted sentenses:

''ye are saved'': a person has to believe he/she is saved after they placed their faith in the gospel: the Bible teaches salvation by faith alone apart from works (Romans 4:5 KJV, Romans 11:6 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV). Worksalvationists don't believe they are saved; they believe they are ''on their way to heaven''.

''died for our sins'': one has to acknowledge that they are a condemned sinner who has to trust in the gospel for salvation.

''according to the scriptures''. The Bible is the source of a christian's faith (that's why you go to the Bible to define what a christian is) as you can read in Romans 10:17 KJV. One has to receive the scriptures as the word of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV). Bible-agnostics (people who have no clue where to find God's infallible word for us today) DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.

Note: if you after this explanation still insist that a christian is anyone who calls him/herself a christian, then you can have the term ''christian'' for all I care, then I'll just go by saved and unsaved from now on.

Every Western country is secular in practise as well. Those minor examples you named don't make a country christian. What atheistic rights are being supressed due christian culture?

On the media,

1. I know America has Fox News, granted, but almost all the others have progressive-leftwing bias: they don't just demonise christians, but everyone with conservative views.

2. You have never been in Europe, haven't you?

 

Lol your first sentence. Because I have no infallible standard, I can't judge people? That is maybe the stupidest take on morality I have ever heard. So by acknowledging that there is no OBJECTIVE right and wrong, I can't say Hitler was a terrible person? Or MLK was a great one?

It seems like you're trying to redefine Christianity to be just your brand of it. I'll happily use the terms "saved" and "unsaved" if you like, but just to be clear I'm gonna go by the dictionary definition, which is a lot more encompassing and reliable imo.

1. How do they demonise Christians/conservatives? You know most of the people on those shows are Christians, themselves right? What they are critical of, and rightly so, are religious extremists.

2. I was born there... I'm from the UK originally.

 

Define "extreme"

 

flame war flame war flame war flame war flame war flame war flame war flame war flame war flame war flame war

 

Knaber rates this post *Winner*

 

I go away for 3 days.

3 days and Tom says comes back.

Goddamnitall.

 

If you believe in moral relativism, you can't.

I don't redefine Christianity. I'm using the Bible to define what a christian is. Furthermore, I'm non-denominational: I don't care what any pastor or supposed ''great man of the faith'' has to say.

Here is why the dictionary isn't reliable to define ''christian''"

Definition of Christian
1a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

^ these are the worksalvationists I talked about earlier...

(They've failed to do the will of the Father found in John 6:39-40 KJV

John 6:39-40 King James Version (KJV)
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

1. What do you mean by moral relativism? By the way, there is NO infallible standard for morality. There is the illusion of an infallible standard (God's word) but if God isn't real (spoiler: he isn't), then such a standard doesn't exist. Does that mean none of us can judge each other for moral shortcomings?

2. When you're arguing that the dictionary is not a reliable source for defining words, you're maybe a bit down the wrong track...

 

I hate that we need a word to describe Atheism. That's what humans are by default.

 

p r e a c h

 

You guys must love your English classes.

 

If God doesn't exist, then there indwed wouldn't be an infallible standard to judge morality. Then you automatically have "survival of the fittest". And guess what? Atheists, especially progressive atheists, have the lowest birthrates! Hahahaha

The dictionary defines a christian as someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Anyone can claim to do that. Isn't your job to convince christians that atheism is the truth? Then atleast use our source (the Bible) if you want to convince us.

Voltaire once said that if you want to destroy christianity, you'll have to destroy people their faith in the Bible (paraphrased).

 

What if they don't believe in god either?

 

No @Gehenna_Beam, all versions are not fine. I showed you that before. The problem is that you have no idea what God's word actually says, because you don't believe any Bible version or manuscript to be the complete, infallible revelation of God.

 

1. What about neanderthals?

2. Try again, with real arguments and not "uhh but maybe God intervened because my theory doesn't hold water any water at all and i need to resort to using god's intervention despite there being no evidence for it even in the bible at all"

 

You're right. If God doesn't exist, there is no infallible standard to judge morality. But then from there, you go wacko. Because there's no infallible standard, we must resort to Darwinism? What the f--k? You're making the same mistake Gehenna made which is assuming that you can't make your own morality. I don't have an infallible standard but I decide for myself what is right and wrong. You can too. I don't believe in social darwinism. And having low birthrates is a product of a) no religious rules against abortion/contraception and b) being mostly in developed countries, to my knowledge.

Well yes anyone can claim to do that, doesn't make it true. If I can see that someone is genuinely following the teachings of Jesus, I will think of them as a Christian. My job isn't necessarily to convince you but to open your minds, Gehenna in particular is very closed-minded to evolution in particular. Your source (the Bible) is useless. Meaningless, as a historical source or in any debate context. It's all made up. Why should I stoop to the level of using the Bible as a source when it has no real value as a source? I'll stick to other arguments, thank you.

Gehenna you're on the verge of a breakthrough! You gotta understand that a single mutation (i.e. a slight change in skin colour) is an evolutionary process. These happen fairly often. And then they add up, they acculumate, and then BAM you've got a new species. A black man and a white man are the same species, undeniably. But if you add on different changes (maybe one has improved eyesight and hand-eye coordination, maybe one grows larger and stronger, maybe one develops different behavioural traits) then eventually you get a change of species.

Mutations ARE a part of evolution. I think that to understand evolution you need to know the terminology so here's my understanding (anyone feel free to correct me, I'm not a scientist)

Hereditary Mutation - Random change in DNA that is passed from parent to offspring.

Natural Selection - The process by which the best mutations are determined and the DNA passed on. A mutation that gives an animal weak eyesight or makes them too slow is bad for the animal's survival and they will likely die. That mutation won't get passed on. A mutation that makes an animal cleverer or makes them slightly stronger is good for the animal's survival and their chances of survival are much higher. They will likely have kids, and the mutation will pass on to them.

Evolution - The overall process of species changing as a result of thousands of mutations and natural selection.

Ya get it? I feel like you're close to understanding evolution, Gehenna.

As for the two white parents and the black baby, could you link me to an article or something about it? To be honest, it just sounds like the white mom banged a black guy and lied about it. But anyway, it COULD be that in this case black skin is a recessive trait, one that sometimes skips a generation. So maybe one of the white parents was half-black and it just didn't show? Idk I've never heard of something like this happening. It doesn't really count as "evolution", it's just plain fking weird.

 

And you keep on contradicting yourself. Here you are saying that everyone has to decide for themselves what's right and wrong, but in the next post you're going to dictate a theist on morality.

Yes, ignore the Bible and keep on strawmanning fundamental christian positions. You are sure going to open christians their minds for atheism that way, lol.

So either I was right and you are only interested in arguing or your target audience exists out of churchchristians who semi-willfully follow their pastor and plan on leaving as soon as they reached adulthood anyway and who have no clue what christianity is all about (sportyman for example). If it's the latter, I'm 100% for you. In fact, I'll even help you if you want.