Come On, Humanity.

I've never been to Europe before but I'll say anywhere is better than this city. State. Actually, this whole country. I look up to European countries for being the most advanced in social and educational ways even though my nationality is not European.

 

You shouldn't be. Sure some things suck, well a lot do, were a country ruled by money and big business, but it could be worse. Were not a war torn country, we don't have to fight for food. We have it pretty damn good. If anything makes me ashamed to be an American is how self-righteous and entitled we have all become.

You have no idea how easy you have it. You are so naive to think somewhere like Russia and Ukraine are better off than you are in your cushy little house, with heat, a tv, a car, a computer, and the ability to sit around on a video game website and post your honest opinions and thoughts without it resulting in your death and the death of your family. Sometimes you need to think about how easy we have it here, think outside the box and realize your life is pretty damn good. Not to say the US is perfect, it is FARRRRR from it, but we also have it really, REALLY easy.

 

The country is the best in the world I might admit. If we were in the 1950s. Now, it's half of the American population that is racist towards Muslims, rioting against the police force for killing off innocent blacks, or supporting gun ownership after the mass school shootings we've had. The other half belongs to the people who are deciding whether that crippled Donald Trump should be a president or not while the US is one of the greatest contributors to environmental degradation.

No doubt, we're one of the most developed countries in the world. My problem with being embarrassed about being American is having to live with the society I described above.

 

You do know the 1950's were more prejudice towards both blacks and Japanese (as a result of pearl harbor we locked them in camps to contain them and the possible threat they posed. 90-95% of terrorist attacks against the us have been tied to Muslims and ISIS, so it's only normal to be a little suspicious, not saying its ok to demean an entire race of people for a few extremists, but when their religions literally declare they should kill non-believers (jihad), it is an alarming fact. Describe innocent? Sure a fine few of the people getting in trouble with police are innocent, but the vast majority are not. You stated that they riot against police, obviously the people rioting (mainly black) have a strong prejudice towards the police, how can you not expect the people being prejudiced (the police) to prejudice back.

Not to mention by you describing the American culture through generalizing our beliefs is racist toward the Americans, because believe it or not, not all Americans believe that.

Good points though, nice argument.

 

1) Actually, you don't need a background check to buy a gun...so yes, criminals can buy guns without a background check. You can buy guns from private sellers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

2) The healthcare blame for mental illness is pretty weak. If this is the case then having weapons easily available doesn't help. Other contries have the same percentages of mentally needy patients per population as a percentage of the entire percentage of population.

3) There needs to be massive gun restrictions, they are too easy to get, can be modified, and are readily available.

4) The Affordable Healthcare Act, reforms healthcare, provides more services to more uncovered people who go to the hospital anyway (check out an ED next time), hospitals had to eat those loses in the past. Mental health is a real issue but I do not see the correlation between that and access to guns.

5) This is a very sad story. A 2 year old kills his mom, who was licensed to carry a gun. Again, how many different ways would I need to explain how easy it is to get a gun, unfortunately even a 2 year old can do it.

 

1) The article itself states that of the youth that possessed firearms, only 22% had them illegally. The article also admits that it's one study implying that the majority of the firearms possessed are illegal is out of date. That's not a very compelling argument to support that a majority or even large number of the general population's firearm count is illegal.

2) Ok, then fix the healthcare system. I really don't care as long as the number of murders goes down because that's the root of this problem. Either fix the gun problem or the healthcare problem, and at this point the gun solution seems the most logical as it covers the most ground.

3) Removal is essentially the same thing as not having, when you get to the fundamentals. In both cases, there is simply no law preventing it. Why have laws if people are going to break them? The answer is simple: They're in place for a reason, which is to prevent people from doing something thought to be harmful. Take Marijuana for example. Sure, a lot of people want it, but for most, the presence of the law and the threat of punishment deters them. However, if the law were lifted, majijuana user numbers would skyrocket. Same principle with guns, and the less guns in random hands the better. People will always find ways to get guns, but the fewer the options, the better.

4) In both cases, people are being killed, and if we're arguing 2 sides to promote safety, does it matter? We both want public safety, and hundreds of single-shootings do the exact same thing as mass-shootings. One simply doesn't hear about them or frankly care about them as much because they lack media attention. People are being killed either way.

5) Put yourself in the eyes of a terrorist: You are going to go to America, and kill people at a movie theater. Now, you want to kill as many as possible in the shortest amount of time. Do you use a Glock or a Klashikov? A Klashnikov, of course. Klashnikovs are killing machines. People don't buy Klashnikovs with the intent of self-defense, that's why you have Glocks. Klashnikovs and other weapons which can kill much more people in a shorter amount of time than handheld pistols are simply unsafe and shouldn't be as common as they are.

6) That was a bit of a joke and contained sarcasm. Based on your views on guns I was almost certain you'd dislike Obamacare, which is why I said that. However, the fact that you support healthcare yet "hate" Obamacare makes me wonder if this is becoming less of a public safety issue and more partisan hatred.

7) When I say "spur of the moment" I refer to an argument between 2 people that gets out of hand and 1 dies. I have seen a gun be pulled on someone during and argument in the middle of the night in a city. I was with my parents and drove away before we saw anything else, but anger-driven killings resulting from arguments are definitely a thing, which is what I was referring to.

8) Aight cool so we can agree on things. Nice maybe we can get somewhere.

 

1.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System and yes, that is an example of what I consider, illegal methods. Selling privately at a gun show without a bg check is what I consider illegal, you are bipassing the legal route of obtaining a gun.

2.) No, whether a major role or not, the us mental healthcare system is horrible.

3.) I agree, restrictions, not bans.

4.) Not enough people know the symptoms or care enough to do something about it. Thats the truth, and when they do get diagnosed, nothing is done other than a prescription.

5.) As mentioned above, there need to be more gun safety, and gun responsibility training. Had that gun been locked in a safe, a baby couldn't have gotten to it. That's the parents fault not the gun, nor the kid.

1.) YOUTHS POSSESSING FIREARMS! You realize its illegal for a youth to own a firearm. Any kid with a gun either got it illegally, or from parent (that's whee safety and training mentioned above comes into play).

2.) Agreed. Fix healthcare

3.) Removing means taking it away from responsible Americans prepared to defend themselves. Not having is a choice of people. Removing is not a choice. Not the same thing, at all.

4.) My argument focused on Mass Shootings. But if you want to look at murders, how many of them do you think took a background check? It's also a futile argument to tell you a % of illegal guns. The fact is if they're illegal they're undocumented. There is no way to track these guns, we can only estimate.

5.) Glocks are also automatic, way less, are easier to maneuver, inflict just as much pain, and can hold a extended mag. In all honesty, a Glock is the better choice. (I am sure I am on a list now for saying that D Not to mention the mags are smaller in size and you can hold more.

6.) Oh XD I was confused why you would establish that conclusion! I hate Obamacare. By healthcare, I mean the treatment of mentally ill patients. Whether that's by means of an actual "healthcare system" or a new take on mentally ill treatment is up to you. The fact is we don't treat mental illness as a real disease.

7.) If the other party had a gun, this wouldn't be an unfair fight now would it? Perhaps that person could even DEFEND THEMSELVES from the attacker. I am sorry you saw that, but it happens, it sucks yes, and I guarantee you will see a lot worse things than someone getting a gun pointed at them, we live in a sick world brother.

8.) yeet yeet yeet yeet

Good arguments! Keep em coming! I might be going to bed soon though, so if I don't get back to you, I will get to it in the morning

 

1) Approximately 5,000 gun shows occur annually in the United States. Pretty sure that is enough opportunity that anyone can get a gun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States

In my post above a 2 year old could get his hands on a gun. In the Columbine Massacre, High School kids got guns. Your argument about the difficulty in obtaining guns by anyone is impaired, deficient, and flawed.

2) US mental health is under-reimbursing service for hospitals. Other countries have the same percentage of patients but they don't have access to point #1 "guns".

In my reply above, the toddler killed his mom and she was licensed to carry. That underscores how easy they are to use.

Without knowing your situation, I theorize that the Affordable Healthcare Act benefit you or those around you in ways you can not even comprehend because you are both unstudied, have obtained all your information from sound bites, and lack a true financial awareness of US health care costs.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

3) Most of these shooting incidents had the person buying the gun legally or acquiring them (in the first case, it was High School kids). You do realize my first post was about a small 2 year old kid right?

I live in Colorado so these stories hit home. The attached sections are from the Wiki on each incident.

3.1 - The Columbine High School massacre or simply Columbine was a school shooting that occurred on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School in Columbine,[2][3] an unincorporated area of Jefferson County in the state of Colorado. In addition to the shootings, the complex and highly planned attack involved a fire bomb to divert firefighters, propane tanks converted to bombs placed in the cafeteria, 99 explosive devices, and bombs rigged in cars. The perpetrators, two senior students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, murdered a total of 12 students and one teacher. They injured 21 additional people, with three others being injured while attempting to escape the school.

In the months prior to the attacks, Harris and Klebold acquired two 9 mm firearms and two 12-gauge shotguns. Their friend Robyn Anderson bought a rifle and the two shotguns at the Tanner Gun Show in December 1998.[27] Through Philip Duran,[28] another friend, Harris and Klebold later bought a handgun from Mark Manes for $500.

Using instructions found on the Internet, Harris and Klebold constructed a total of 99 improvised explosive devices of various designs and sizes. They sawed the barrels and butts off their shotguns to make them easier to conceal.[13]

On the day of the massacre, Harris was equipped with a 12-gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (which he discharged a total of 25 times) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm carbine with thirteen 10-round magazines (which he fired a total of 96 times).

Klebold was equipped with a 9×19mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine and a 12-gauge Stevens 311D double-barreled sawed-off shotgun. Klebold primarily fired the TEC-9 handgun for a total of 55 times, while he discharged a total of 12 rounds from his double-barreled shotgun.

In their investigation into how Harris and Klebold had acquired their firearms, police learned they had acquired one through a friend Mark Manes. He and Philip Duran, who had introduced the duo to him,[59] were eventually prosecuted for their roles in supplying guns to Harris and Klebold.[60] Each was charged with supplying a handgun to a minor and possession of a sawed-off shotgun. Manes and Duran were sentenced to a total of six years and four-and-a-half years in prison, respectively.

In May 2002, the Secret Service published a report that examined 37 US school shootings. They had the following findings:

• Incidents of targeted violence at school were rarely sudden, impulsive acts.
• Prior to most incidents, other people knew about the attacker's idea and/or plan to attack.
• Most attackers did not threaten their targets directly prior to advancing the attack.
• There is no accurate or useful profile of students who engaged in targeted school violence.
• Most attackers engaged in some behavior prior to the incident that caused others concern or indicated a need for help.
• Most attackers had difficulty coping with significant losses or personal failures. Moreover, many had considered or attempted suicide.
• Many attackers felt bullied, persecuted, or injured by others prior to the attack.
• Most attackers had access to and had used weapons prior to the attack.
• In many cases, other students were involved in some capacity.
• Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most shooting incidents were stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.

3.2 - The Aurora Movie Theater Shooting

On July 20, 2012, a mass shooting occurred inside of a Century 16 movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, during a midnight screening of the film The Dark Knight Rises. A gunman, dressed in tactical clothing, set off tear gas grenades and shot into the audience with multiple firearms. 12 people were killed and 70 others were injured, the largest number of casualties in a shooting in the United States.[3] The sole assailant, James Eagan Holmes, was arrested in his car parked outside the cinema minutes later. It was the deadliest shooting in Colorado since the Columbine High School massacre in 1999. Prior to the shooting, Holmes rigged his apartment with homemade explosives, which were defused by a bomb squad one day after the shooting.

The shooting prompted an increase in security at movie theaters across the U.S. that were screening the same film, in fear of copycat crimes. The shooting also led to a spike in gun sales in Colorado, as well as political debates about gun control in the United States.

Holmes confessed to the shooting, but pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. Arapahoe County prosecutors sought the death penalty for Holmes. The trial began on April 27, 2015. He was convicted of twenty-four counts of first-degree murder, 140 counts of attempted first-degree murder, and one count of possessing explosives on July 16, 2015. On August 7, 2015, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. On August 26, 2015, he was given 12 life sentences, one for every person he killed, and 3,318 years for the attempted murders of those he wounded, and for rigging his apartment with explosives.[4]

Casualties
Eighty-two casualties were reported.[48][49] Seventy were hit by bullets, reported by mainstream news as the most victims of any mass shooting in United States history.[50][51] Four people's eyes were irritated by the tear gas grenades, while eight others injured themselves while fleeing the theater.[2] The massacre was the deadliest shooting in Colorado since the Columbine High School massacre on April 20, 1999.[52]

Fatalities
Ten victims died at the scene and two more in local hospitals. Four of the victims, Jonathan Blunk, John Larimer, Matt McQuinn, and Alexander Teves, died protecting their girlfriends.[53][54] They are:[55][56]

• Jonathan Blunk, age 26, shot once in the back (fatally) and once in the head
• Alexander J. Boik, age 18, shotgunned once in the head (fatally), chest, and shoulder
• Jesse Childress, age 29, shotgunned once in the torso (fatally), both legs, and right arm
• Gordon Cowden, age 51, shot once in the chest
• Jessica Ghawi, age 24, shot six times, four in the torso and limbs and once in the head (fatally)
• John Larimer, age 27, shot twice in the chest and abdomen (both fatally)
• Matt McQuinn, age 27, shot nine times, including in the chest and neck (both fatally)
• Micayla Medek, age 23, shot once in the chest
• Veronica Moser-Sullivan, age 6, shot four times, including in the chest (fatally), limbs, and lower right side[57]
• Alex Sullivan, age 27, shot once in the chest
• Alexander C. Teves, age 24, shot once in the head
• Rebecca Wingo, age 31, shot and shotgunned in the head (both fatally), shot once in the torso, and once in a limb.

Sale of guns and gun control debate
Colorado gun sales spiked after the shooting, with the number of background checks for people seeking to purchase a firearm in the state increasing to 2,887, up 43% from the previous week.[175] Gun sales in Washington, Florida, California, and Georgia also increased.[176] The shooting reignited the political debate on gun control, with one issue being the "easy access" Holmes had to semi-automatic rifles and high-capacity magazines, which were banned federally from 1994 to 2004.[177][178]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting

3.3 Funeral Held for Police Officer Killed in Colorado Planned Parenthood Shooting

He leaves behind two children, 6-year-old Faith and 10-year-old Elijah.

On November 27, 2015, a shooting spree and five-hour standoff with police occurred near a grocery store and at a nearby Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado.[2] A police officer and two civilians were killed; five police officers and four civilians were injured.[3][4] After a standoff that lasted five hours,[5][2] police convinced the suspected shooter, identified as Robert Lewis Dear, to surrender. He was taken into custody.

The incident drew comments from anti-abortion and abortion-rights movements. Authorities said the motive was unknown. On November 30, 2015, Dear was charged with murder in the first-degree, and was ordered to be held without bond.

3.4 ATF: All 4 guns used by San Bernardino suspects bought legally

Meredith Davis of the ATF said all four guns were bought four years ago. She also said the rifles involved were .223-caliber - powerful enough to pierce the standard protective vest worn by police officers, and some types of ammo can even plow through walls.

Davis said California requires paperwork when guns change hands privately but many other states don't.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-atf-says-all-4-guns-bought-legally/

 

Hooolyyyy Shieeeeettttt, alright, too much to read. The meme is appropriate. Nicely done, I concede XD

 

Too much to read over debate about America. I'll be on Osu! / GTA if you need me.