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Idea balancing weapon tiers

Discussion in 'MC-War' started by Phanta, Oct 9, 2017.

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  1. Phanta

    Phanta Well-Known Member

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    I strongly believe the beginner weapons should be buffed significantly or the later weapons should be nerfed significantly -- that is to say, the power gap between the starting and ending weapon tier is too pronounced. New players are presented with a selection of relatively weak weaponry. While a skilled player can definitely use these weapons to defeat a player with a more powerful weapon, a new player will not have that same skill advantage and will therefore encounter a wall of sorts when they try to progress.

    I think the guns unlocked through playtime should not be significantly more powerful than the weapons available at the beginning of the game. A new player with little to no skill is already matched pretty unfairly against a veteran player, but if they have a chance to win in such a matchup, they'll have incentive to continue playing and improve their skill level; players are happy when they defeat a higher level opponent, and they'll work to increase the odds of winning against such an opponent. However, the imbalance introduced by the skilled player's use of, for example, the AK-47 would essentially make the matchup unwinnable to the unskilled player. Thus, that player has no incentive to continue playing war -- they've reached a point where they perceive progression as an insurmountable skill and/or weapon power barrier.

    Another way to think about it is this: suppose you have a set W of all weapons in the game and a set P produced by applying a function
    Code:
    weapon -> weapon's damage
    
    over W. We can then write a function
    Code:
    weapon damage a, weapon damage b -> (b / maximum skill) - (a / minimum skill)
    
    where "maximum skill" is the maximum possible player skill level and "minimum skill" is the minimum. This function represents the maximum potential difference in weapon power, normalized by skill level, between two weapons in the set P. Thus, the maximum maximum potential difference Q (i.e. the difference between a new player using the weakest weapon and the top-rank war player using the strongest weapon) can be determined by applying this function to the minimum and maximum elements of P. The primary focus of weapon balancing should be to make sure Q is high enough such that players have a motivating force that compels them to continue playing the game, but low enough such that the advantage held by old players isn't overwhelming to the point where new players find the game unplayable. Right now, I believe Q is a little too high for comfort.

    This video gives a good visual explanation of this kind of balancing:


    This idea occurred to me when I saw that "which gun is best?!?!?" thread. I took a glance and thought to myself, "this is a question that should not have a definitive, objective answer." If such a "best" gun existed, it would represent a total upset of balance, so it's alarming that the answers to that question are a relatively small subset of all the available weapons. You could even say the size of this subset represents `cardinality(P) - Q` for the set of all weapon powers P, speaking in terms of the model developed above. Therefore the tininess of this subset as it is represents a too-high Q.

    tldr; play-to-win is just as bad as pay-to-win because new players are screwed.
     
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    #1 Phanta, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  2. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    completely agree. as a new player I get rekt in War, and while I have a good sense of humor about it (my KDR is somewhere around 0.18) getting pounded over and over again gets pretty tiring. It's even worse when your team is full of new people, like me, and against marcel, sn4x5, 19kss, tallscot, etc. Like here I am trying to figure out how to reload and I'm getting blasted by some guy with an AK or whatever. I stopped firing at one point and just chucked grenades because at least I could sometimes get a kill that way.

    big +1
     
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  3. Carsonn

    Carsonn #1 WarZ Looter

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    I didn't play much real COD, but it always felt like every single gun had a strength and weakness. There was no "best" COD gun, and in War there definitely is a best gun: the AK, because it is only level 25 and can rip apart other people. While nerfing the AK may help, looking at the game holistically can absolutely help make it more balanced
     
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  4. Ice_Bear1

    Ice_Bear1 Well-Known Member

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    Ice Bear likes the system where there is the bars for accuracy damage fire rate etc. Ice Bear finds it unfair that the m16a4 is objectively better than the famas it has better stats overall.Ice Bear feels there should be a greater balance with each guns having the same amount of advantage points in total but each focusing in different areas or lowered to make up for burst fire vs full auto.
     
  5. Champloo

    Champloo Guest

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    Agree, if there is 3/4 people with AK on 1 team, the enemy team will most likely be spawnkilled. +1
     
  6. Fista

    Fista War MOD / https://bit.ly/3ffu9pJ

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    +1 Ak is way to powerful and needs to be changed.
     
  7. sjuka_legogubbar

    sjuka_legogubbar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Yes.

    This would make skill important rather than having a good gun.

    Also knowledge where different guns will fit better with the map and ones playstyle (thinking about this together with your other idea).
     
  8. redslime

    redslime Lead Developer

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    just because ur ****


    haha!
     
  9. Signatured

    Signatured War 2.0 Developer

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    What is wrong with the AK that needs to be changed? Fire rate? Damage?
     
  10. sjuka_legogubbar

    sjuka_legogubbar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Nerfing one of them should fix it, just don't do both.
     
  11. Signatured

    Signatured War 2.0 Developer

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    Are the ACR and SCAR fine though?
     
  12. sjuka_legogubbar

    sjuka_legogubbar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Only two (or maybe some more) people have unlocked ACR and noone has SCAR yet. So lets wait and see. But from gungame they seem to be about as good as ak.
     
  13. randomcitizen1

    randomcitizen1 The schizophrenic swagmoneymillionaire

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    Haven't actually unlocked it yet, so I can't be definitive about it. But from being on the receiving end of it, it has sniper like accuracy, has the rof of an automatic, and has the power of John Cena on Kim-Jong-Un nuke sauce.

    It kills from across the map, fires quickly, and I believe it's a 3sk bodyshot and a 2sk headshot (or even 1 headshot + 1 body shot).

    I'd have to look at the stats myself, but it feels like it needs a damage nerf.
     
    #13 randomcitizen1, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  14. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    Slight nerf to the accuracy and nerf the damage per second, whether that's by reducing the fire rate, damage, or both.
     
  15. randomcitizen1

    randomcitizen1 The schizophrenic swagmoneymillionaire

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    (Replying now to the actual thread...)

    I think the best way to go about balancing guns would be through highly effective guns with smaller amounts of ammo. Little ammo is crippling for effective strategies, but guns could still be powerful, accurate, or whatever.
     
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  16. Ice_Bear1

    Ice_Bear1 Well-Known Member

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    Ice Bear would not prefer that this would only stop large kill streaks but not the unfair duels with them. Ice Bear would rather have a damage nerf.
     
  17. Falooda

    Falooda Member

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    1. I disagree. I went through a phase as a beginner of having a terrible KDR, but after a while, my KDR started getting higher and higher, and now I have a solid KDR. I just used the FAMAS in the premade kit. While it is not the best gun at all, the premade kits really do help close the skillgap.
     
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