To Atheists...

@tallscot i have seen files and official documents stating it. Let me expand on what I said. I only believe what I have observed or seen by multiple credible sources. I clearly wasn't as specific as I should have been.

 

You just said WWII was not that bad. Millions died. Million square more were both physically and mentally scared. It massively effected the world population today. And many more powerful people will do horrible things in the future. You mostly say things that are BS.

And the multiverse is a scientific theory. A scientific theory is developed after tests and evidence of its existence. Real evidence. What people think of when they here theory is a hypothesis. Another scientific theory is that we are real. So if you say theories aren't proven then you are saying you don't exist. XD
Also you mentioned God ends suffering. I know many people who have lost so much and many of them are not living right now . No one and nothing eased their suffering and they were mostly Christian. So your claim is largely false.

@Gehenna_Beam
I recommend you try looking at the world in a non-bias view.

And also do you think god is all powerful? I could prove this wrong easily with a single question.

 

I sleep at night knowing that I'll be long gone before heat death happens, so it's some other fella's problem.

Anyway if you're trying to say that God is why the Holocaust isn't continuing today... actually no you can think Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin for that.

Again, I don't have any problem with the logic that God shouldn't/doesn't step in to solve everything because then the world would be a boring place with no challenge. If I were God, I wouldn't necessarily think it my duty to fix everything for humans. THAT BEING SAID - if you're going to believe in a personal interventionist God, i.e. one who hears your prayers and sometimes answers them, as I'm sure you do, then I find that incredibly egotistical and immoral. You really think God thinks it's more important to solve your personal problems than ending the f--king Holocaust? Either a) you're making it all up or b) God has terrible priorities.

 

they were wrong. a brick wall is significantly easier to talk to than you

 

I brick wall doesn't make up BS replies and also wouldnt even care.So ya, It is easier XD

Personally I accept that I will die. It is inevitable and fearing it is just a waste of your limited life. So I personally don't care how I die. If it's fire then sure it will be painful and torturous but it's not like it lasts forever.

You can't just say something is behind what you don't know and try to act as if its reason. @Gehenna_Beam you clearly are not putting research into this argument. I suggest you try to find evidence supporting your claim from a non-bias source. And also, why would a powerful being care. The universe is massive with much other life out there. Why would a god even bother to notice 1 single person out of possibly uncountable life forms. If a god really exists, humans have suffered and no clear "god" has stopped it. We also are programmed to think certain ways based on our environment. It is just that people naturally try to find reason behind unknown causes. So give us hard evidence and you might have a chance to win this argument.

There is truly no possible way this argument can be settled. We are all arguing about something no one can possibly understand. I believe it is best we all put our differences aside and just except no one knows if god is real or an illusion of the human mind.

 

Ice Bear says that just because humans suffer doesn't disprove of a god. Ice Bear says that it is more of an argument towards the Christian view of God.

Ice Bear agrees with that, the one thing Ice Bear will agree with... Ice Bear doesn't exactly agree on your views on MC-WAR.

 

There isn't no one way to look at something. There are countless we will never understand.

Some of my opinions on war are changing. (Off topic) I think m16 is fine and same with M4A1. But not mg4. That guns needs a nerf V: I'm more mature irl that on mc-war. So my views are different in them ;P

 

hahahahahahah

 

You have better luck talking to a Japanese toilet than with @Gehenna_Beam

 

because its funny

 

There is evidence suggesting it but scientists need more research. There are many scientific theories stating this. Your simple mind clearly isn't capable of understanding what i am saying. https://academic.oup.com/astrogeo/article/49/2/2.29/246765. This is an article from oxford explaining it. You may find this interesting as I did. I didn't believe that a multiverse could exist but I was convinced. And that "god" working through you is really just your sub conscience or an in explained event. Just saying it is a god makes no logical sense. In all the non logical things there is logic, simply which we do not fully understand. I hope your simple mind under stands what I am saying. So far it hasn't. And in 1,000 years we will vurtully make no difference in the outcome of the future. We do not matter as much as we believe we do and therefor why would a god care. And Earth isn't forever. Our planet will one day be obliterated in the vacuum of space. Like I asked. Why would a god care.

And you mentioned evolution. There is literally millions of prices of evidence saying it is real. You clearly do not understand the way genetics works. Even though atleast wher I live people are expected to know it by 8th grade. And I do not ignore the good side. It isn't just that there is no good or bad side. These are simply titles we give to certain things. Good and bad is only opinion, not fact. And all emotion you feel is simply a chemical reaction in the brain. If you then say that this is false you are proving me right in many ways. I have a counter for everything you say with logical reasoning. :>

@Gehenna_Beam even if I am wrong and you are 100% right in this dispute I will have something to gain. I would have learned something. And if you lose the argument you would have also gained knowledge. Use this to your advantage. XD

 

Sorry for such a late reply, school and resigning has made me extremely busy. I'm going to try to do the best I can to prove God exists, without quoting the Bible. Quoting the Bible while proving God's existence is pointless, because if someone doesn't believe in God, they could care less about what the Bible says.

The Argument of Motion
The first and more manifest way is the argument of motion. It is certain, and evident in our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently no other mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understand to be God.

Everything has a cause. Atheists would argue that the big bang created the universe, but what created the big bang? Everything has to be put in motion by another, and it cannot go on to infinity. This stuff above is from Thomas Aquinas, I'm sure some of you have heard of him.

Am I the only person who wonders where we come from and why we're here? The Human Person has a sense of longing and moral order. If man can reason, and all people are equal, there must be something greater than man overseeing all of this. We understand this to be God.

Now I know I'm going to get a lot of questions about "Why does God allow suffereing" "Why can you believe in Transubstantiation" etc, and I'll answer those questions, but please be patient with me because I'm super busy, and wanted to just get this out here.

I'll expand on this later when I have more time

 

But what made God?

 

God is not an action or movement. God is - meaning he always has been. Nothing made the first mover, because if you go down that path then you're just saying creating things goes onto infinity. Also, you can't ask that question if you don't believe in God, because then you're implying God is real, and if you know God is real then you know nothing created God. Things can't created themselves, so it has to trace back to something that always has been.

 

The only real answer I can think of now is that there is no real answer. At least not one we can possibly imagine. There is a theory as to what caused the big bang but no one truly knows .-.

 

Ice Bear says an excellent answer, though it does suffer from special exception one would have to accept infinite regression if they didn't believe the argument. Ice bear believes this is Thomas Aquinas' argument if Ice Bear is correct. Ice Bear does say that it does not disprove multiple gods though it is not the point of the argument. Ice Bear says another potential flaw is that infinite regression isn't disproved so people would have to have common ground on that for it to work.

 

I both agree and disagree with the idea of a god. There seems to be a creator following a method to create what we know as the universe through the golden ratio. Look it up if you don't know. I could be wrong but it seems to be everywhere. In life, nebulas, galaxies, planets, and much more. And it is a wonder how we survived the big bang. It was far more likely matter wouldn't connect or after the explosion everything would go back to its previous status. So I don't fully believe either side. When something starts to make sense something else always seems to pop-up and make us change our minds :V.

 

I've heard this before and it's baloney. You want to try and address the paradox of the first motion - what started the universe. That's fine, it's a valid exploration of how we came to be. I don't have the answers, no one does. But to then use this argument as proof for the existence of a being who defies first motion is ridiculous - you yourself have just proved by logic that there must be a first motion so to then go against that logic and wish into existence a "God" who isn't bound by such rules, is irrational. Neither atheists nor religious folks have the answers to these deep questions. But you're trying to say that your side of the debate is able to circumvent such a paradox, which makes no sense. The only way you can do this is create a being who is beyond our understanding and operates beyond our understanding of parameters such as logic, time and space, but now we're so into the weeds and so into things we have no way of observing or measuring that such speculation becomes pointless.

Essentially, you've presented to me a paradox. We agree this is a paradox. We can agree that we lack the understanding to explain the paradox and move on our way but you attempt to "defeat" the paradox with the concept of God. But in doing so, you're completely going against your own logic laid out just sentences before.
"All things must have a beginning. Something has to set everything in motion."
"Oh so what set God in motion?"
"Oh when I said all things, what I meant was all things that are convenient to my argument. I can't explain who created God, so I'm gonna amend the concept of God to be eternal, even though that is unprovable and makes little sense. But you, as an atheist, still have to explain what created the universe."

Not to mention that even if your argument was a good one, it does nothing to prove the existence of the Christian God or any other specific gods. It's useless to us in choosing a religion, or the lack thereof.

You also say that because man can reason, and all people are equal, there must be a God. I'm sorry what? Firstly, we EVOLVED the ability to reason. It's an evolutionary advantage. Our ability to reason is no more indicative of God than other ability to climb a tree. Secondly, who says all people are equal? I do, and I'm sure you do too - but why is our opinion the right one? Countless millions of humans have considered other humans to be inferior to them, and countless millions have been treated as inferior. We're blessed to be so enlightened in western countries in this day and age that we have the notion of equality but it's been virtually non-existent in many societies for centuries.

I will credit you for, despite what I perceive to be logical fallacies, going far above and beyond the level of discourse and thinking I see from many Christians on this thread, particularly Gehenna. You're absolutely correct in acknowledging how useless the Bible is in convincing atheists of its truth - circular logic 101.