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So where’s the gold inflation?

Discussion in 'Raid' started by Colonel_Graff, Jun 15, 2019.

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  1. Colonel_Graff

    Colonel_Graff http://www.brawl.com/games/ctf/lookup/188857/

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    So anyone wonder where the inflation went this map now that pigman spawners are a thing? And why there are no Raid millionaires? As I approach 50k gold and the map is getting close to a reset, and as someone who is intimately familiar with the Raid economy, I think I have an answer, but to explain it I need to look at both inflation and deflation.

    Inflation happens under a lot of conditions. First, and most commonly, inflation can happen when more money (and in the case of the server, money = gold) chases the same amount of goods and services. People who sell goods and services at a lower price, and see that they sell quickly, respond to this by raising prices. This is what I expected with the advent of pigman spawners- tons of gold coming into the market, cheap stuff being gobbled up, and me selling cobble for 100 gold apiece just before the reset of this map and becoming a Minecraft millionaire. But obviously that hasn’t happened.

    So what really happened? Let’s look at the other side of the equation: deflation. Deflation happens when there is too little money chasing goods, or when there is overproduction of goods. Obviously we’ve been pumping gold into the economy, but also we’ve been pumping other goods as well, since spawners can be changed to produce any mob. These overproduced goods could include rotten flesh, food, leather, and string. In other words, we can not only make cheap gold but a lot of other things for cheap when spawner changes are enabled. And the price of many of these goods have dropped practically to zero- food is cheap, ender pearls are readily available, and rotten flesh has been put in shop by the dub... and I’ve promptly been buying it because *Thats where the money is.*

    Which gets into the other part of this deflation: villagers. Villagers are practically free to create after you set up a villager spawner, which in itself is fairly cheap to make. But this means that you can make an infinite number of villagers, sift through villagers, kill the ones with crappy trades, and dump cheap and nearly infinite tradeables (flesh mainly) at them for both xp and emeralds. And here’s where the true money is: with these easy to make emeralds, one can get fat stacks of enchanted books like Unbreaking 3, Sharp 5, Protection 4, Efficiency 5, and sell them outright or create tons of sets of enchant for sale. This all obviously dumps a lot more ‘goods’ in the shop and drives costs down; I literally have hundreds of top enchanted books in the shop for sale, altogether worth thousands of gold.

    Which brings me to the net effect of spawner changing: there’s more gold, but there’s also more goods, and on balance price for goods isn’t affected much. Gold obviously pushes inflation up, but food is now far more plentiful, which pushes inflation down. Also, there’s way more enderpearls and enchanted books which also pushes inflation down.

    Tl;dr, and in conclusion: On the whole, spawner changing appears to be fairly inflation neutral. It adds gold but it also puts more overall goods and enchant in the shop, and facilitates more PVP. I would recommend against removing it from any future maps.
     
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  2. Eil

    Eil Ex-Raid // Perm. Ban Manager
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    I'd be interested to know your thoughts (and anyone else) on keeping spawner changing, with the single change of removing pigmen spawners.
     
  3. Colonel_Graff

    Colonel_Graff http://www.brawl.com/games/ctf/lookup/188857/

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    Keep spawner changing, even pigman spawner changing. If inflation gets out of control just crank down gold drops from pigmen (which is a pretty easy code change). The inflation just never materialized like I thought it would.
     
  4. Twhat

    Twhat Professional Tracker

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    Remove changeable spawners, they break gamemode instead add salvaging plugin
     
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  5. Colonel_Graff

    Colonel_Graff http://www.brawl.com/games/ctf/lookup/188857/

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    Agree on salvaging, but pigman swords would push inflation *a lot*.

    Changeable spawners do not break the gamemode IMO
     
  6. CalledRainer

    CalledRainer Well-Known Member

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    I think having changeable spawners is beneficial to Raid in multiple ways.
    1) Obviously Brawl earns money from the dragoneggs which Players can purchase on the store. However the price of the eggs on the store is too low since barely anyone is intrested in the end event as you can have them without any risk from the store for 5$.
    2) Players which are new to tracking have a decent chance of tracking an "AFK warp" and get a great reward from it: Dragon eggs.
    Therefore i would rather keep them with some changes

    Another thing i would like to add is the "Diversity" of using the eggs. At the moment endermanspawners and pigman spawners are the only "viable" way to use your egg.
    So i suggest making other ingame items not as common/ only obtainable by having a certain spawner. I have already talked to Eil about removing the "Slime farming glitch" to make slime a lot less common, hence making slimespawners another viable option to use your egg.

    Another "High value" ingame mob dop are wither skulls ->Wither boss -> netherstar -> Haste beacons. By removing the natural wither skeleton spawn in nether fortresses Skeleton spawners in the nether or koth loot would be the only two ways to get a beacon.

    Lastly making Guardians drop even more experience points might be another way to increase the other viable options to use your egg on. I Guess only very few people know but "Adult" zombiepigman drop 5 Exp points whereas guards drop 10 exp points. Obviously the Benefit of higher xpdroprates didnt comensate value of the addidional gold drop of pigmen. So maybe you could test increasing the xpdroprates to 12.5 or so.

    I agree with adding the salvaging plugin for 3 reasons.
    1) No more messy af iron Banks with 500 iron sets.
    2) Another way to get iron for Trackers -> making gathering tracking materials easier
    3) Giving Trackers and even pvpers a reason to iron pvp as they can get iron blocks for trackers from it :smile:

    Obviously no gold salvaging, Im torn on Diamond salvaging as Diamonds are easier to farm than iron lol.(With haste Boosters)
    NERF HASTE BOOSTERS they are 20 times the normal efficiency they are the "Bad Boys" who actually ruin the game economy/balance
     
  7. Eil

    Eil Ex-Raid // Perm. Ban Manager
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    Dragon eggs will be increased in price next map. As you say, the shop eggs are far more convenient than the End event at the moment.

    In all honesty, skeleton spawners in the nether were meant to be disabled to prevent mass wither skeleton farming. While I can understand your point of making them the only way of getting beacons, the rate at which they spawn wither skeletons is very high. Although there is potentially to make that less, but still a better way to get skulls than regular farming.

    The slime issue can certainly be altered.

    Salvaging I can see the need for, and everything you've said about it increasing iron PvP, making it more viable, making iron armour worth something are all valid points. My only negative with it is vault thinning, where players can thin large vaults down a lot, decreasing the reward from raids / number of bases.. But then you could argue - What reward? It's iron. For that same reason I don't like the idea of diamond salvaging, as it can increase vault thinning far more than iron will.
    Should salvaging cost something? (very low - 1 XP level, 1 gold?)
     
  8. Twhat

    Twhat Professional Tracker

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    Thats why changeable spawners should Be disabled
     
  9. CalledRainer

    CalledRainer Well-Known Member

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    I dont think it makes a difference wheter i raid iron blocks or iron armour. I never have more than 9 iron sets in my pvp bank. I warp like once in 2 weeks to my main iron bank.
    and as i said i dont think that there is a need for diamond or gold salvaging
     
  10. Jeenss

    Jeenss Ex-Raid Mod

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    You should keep spawner changing. However, some spawners are too OP.
    Pigmen spawners should be changed. Right now, you can get around 200g per spawner / hour, which is very OP. But there are multiple solutions to this problem. You can decrease the amount of drops from pigmen, remove the ability to create multiple pigmen spawners, or remove them entirely.
    Villager spawners are also very OP. The spawning rate should definitely be decreased.
    Wither skeleton spawners should be removed.
    The other spawners are not OP, and shouldn't be changed.
     
  11. Colonel_Graff

    Colonel_Graff http://www.brawl.com/games/ctf/lookup/188857/

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    I own all three of these. (I had a quad pigman until someone made a trip out of it).

    Inflation isn’t a problem because no one is ungodly rich. Lebron was pretty well off and then got his quad raided, which brings up the point that pigman spawners are gonna get raided if players afk there.

    Villager spawners are OP, but only because they enable tons of enchant to be made. They can suffer the same problem as other spawners in which they can easily be found and raided (unless you use a teleport design which I won’t get into in this thread).

    I have a whither farm too, and put some skulls out for sale. I don’t see the problem with them other than whither griefs and beacons. I’ve very, very rarely come across beacons the last 5 years I’ve been on the server and honestly whither griefs are the best griefs IMO.
     
  12. CoCaptainBlue

    CoCaptainBlue Well-Known Member

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    Not if it is done properly. When I was gridning at mine Einfachespur14 was online 24/7 and he was on exactly when I wanted to farm. I was able to avoid his movments for ages. Now this might sounds creepy but I knew tah the logged off for 1 hour everyday at the same time and then he would come back on. ( Hence I avoided him tracking me)

    In the end it was my own stupidity that got mine tracked becuase I didnt expect someone from team Mel0n to raid me since I was on good terms with them. Even then like a doofis I was depositing all my gold as I went along farming it so people knew.

    Otherwise I woudl have like 10k gold by now
     
  13. Colonel_Graff

    Colonel_Graff http://www.brawl.com/games/ctf/lookup/188857/

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    So your pigman got raided because you were there for hours on end?

    I once had a villager spawner get raided within an hour of it being created. The gamemode punishes players that are immobile.
     
  14. CoCaptainBlue

    CoCaptainBlue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.. but it wouldn't have been if I had anticipated Necromancer becuse I didn't think Mel0n would track me. I grinded a little bit at a time. Otherwise I could have avoided getting raided alot longer. and at that time there was kind of 3 power teams active
     
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