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The Misuse of /alts - A Solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions / Ideas' started by StrikerSly, Mar 30, 2020.

?

Implement?

  1. Yes (+1)

    88.9%
  2. With Tweaks (+0)

    11.1%
  3. No (-1)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. Foodcourt

    Foodcourt CTF MOD

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    A little bit late to the conversation but I will jump in with my thoughts:

    JMODs should not have /alts and there are plenty of reasons why I have this thought. Firstly, the potential for leaks (which is what this thread is about) is higher. Although I want to have faith in newly accepted staff members, we have seen this issue time and time again, and it needs to be change to be prevented in the future. If a player is using a different account, it is for a reason, and that person's privacy and wishes should be respected. Your two solutions make sense and they would most likely work, however I think it does not need to be that complex. Simply remove the function for JMODs, there are plenty of moderators online throughout the day who cover almost every timezone. Sure, you can argue that there are times when you are the only staff member online (I have experienced this), but I still think the privacy of players should come first in this regard, hence why I would advocate to remove the function.

    If it is decided that JMODs would keep the function, I would propose this solution:

    • If a JMOD /alts a player, they are told how many of those accounts are punished in any way, not any IGNs connected. This would allow JMODs to still perform their duties while eliminating a chance of leaking.
    Your proposed solutions make sense - and they would most likely work. My personal opinion, however, is to just cut it out of the rank entirely. If you look today, a healthy amount of staff members were promoted to MOD rank. Given this, there will almost always be someone online to perform one of these checks.

    I will close by stating these types of reports need to be taken seriously. Privacy and safety of players need to be of the utmost importance and this information being leaked can have jarring consequences. CTF staff will recall the situation we had a few months ago with a player and how much of a difference it made to that player's experience. I encourage all members of the community to reach out to any staff member if you have any concerns about this - because, as noted, we are not in your Discord servers, PMs, or any other form of communication you may have - that way we can better help combat this issue.

    Thanks for reading!
     
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  2. MoistMayonnaise

    MoistMayonnaise Highly Established Member

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    I'll get to that once I have wifi in my new home, should be by Monday and I am happy cause at first we werent suppose to x3
     
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  3. Lord_Roke

    Lord_Roke Forever the Forums Watchdog
    Retired Staff

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    Said video was reviewed and deemed to be invalid as it is short and the single text message in it is not clearly revealing an alt. Screenshots have not been acceptable evidence for rule violations for a long time as they are so easy to fake.

    Personally, I do not see a disadvantage in only showing if a player is connected to perm-banned accounts. I have forwarded this proposal to other higher staff members for discussion.
     
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  4. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Hope you guys can come to a decision :smile:
     
  5. Warrey

    Warrey Former WarZ Staff

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    The “misuse” that is seen are staff talking about the person who is on an “alt” or mentioning things about the player in calls that people could relate to who the player is. Even specific guns or combos that a player used is the “misuse” > “leaking” who a player is.

    On WarZ there is a saying that the best staff members are always non-WarZ staff. Simply because they are always not in calls and are not involved with who players alting are with their skill level and game techniques.

    One thing that I think a lot of people forget is that only because people find out who the opposite player is does not mean that a staff “told” its team who the player is. Since WarZ staff knows who people are “alting” I think that an anger is created which I completely understand and is one of the reasons to why this thread is created.

    Here’s an example, I just did /alts [player] on someone who passed Scavenger just to make sure it is not a perm-banned player who plays illegally. Since I am playing the game actively and will therefore after doing that command afterwards know who the guy is on the account have precaution and fight the player in a certain way depending on their skill-level. This is something I can not control if I play the game. It is also the way people want to fight. If I know that someone alting is good in tower (a place in nether on WarZ) I would personally maybe stay away and not rush that person. However even though the player I am fighting feel exposed or have the feeling that everyone knows who he/she is, I am a staff member and wants to protect everyone’s identify whoever they are. I am also the only one who knows, not my teammates.

    Before I got staff I knew that I neutralized my relation with every WarZ player in order to be a good staff. If you reading this and plays WarZ and think I would “expose” someone that is false because I have been “alting” a lot myself and it becomes so much more fun when no one knows who you are and I try my best to make that reality.

    I would personally be down for any of these changes and if the command is taken away from JMOD’s there are currently a lot of MOD’s that JMOD’s could ask to /alts check to make sure the player is not perm-banned.

    Thanks for reading,
    - Warrey
     
    #25 Warrey, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  6. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    Correct, but JMODs have no access to /invsee (IIRC) so unless the player uploads a montage, the only possibilities of finding an anonymous player out would be through ping (unlikely) or through /alts (likely).

    Obviously some players are found out at their will, but I know it is not necessary for a JMOD (and potentially even MODs) to know who an anonymous person is since they have no business knowing it anyway. This argument extends past staff abuse and onto why it is unreasonable for MOD- to know who these alts are when only SMOD+ can do anything about them anyway. Even if some staff didn't abuse this command, why even open up the possibility to do so? My solution will, unless there's abusive SMOD+, prevent this from becoming a problem before it is one (and frankly, it already has reached that point).

    That's perfectly okay. But my thread brings up an idea that makes your job easier since it automatically flags the Discord if it was in fact a permbanned player.

    But this is a prime example of using staff perms to gain an advantage over other players. If they wanted to remain anonymous to catch other players off guard, why should you have the upper hand at knowing who they are and thus adjusting your play style? A regular player with no access to /alts has no such advantage. Besides, the intended use of the command is to weed out banned players. Even if you used it with that intention, you have indirectly gained information that a regular player cannot access, information that you do not need (SMOD+ to ban them anyway).

    I'll take your word for that. But my solution in the thread makes it so that you don't have to ask anyone anything; if JMODs still have access to the command it's completely encapsulated for both JMODs and MODs so you won't need to ask anything. This will make your job way easier. SMODs might need to do extra work but at least they will be given consistent information and the 12 hour iteration makes it so that the command isn't spammed.

    Thanks for the lengthy response. However, I don't believe my solution is too complex. For both JMOD/MODs, upon issuing /alts [player] they will receive only the # of linked accounts in each category (un/temp/regular/perm banned). The Discord channel for SMOD+ would automatically be notified if the player might need to be permbanned (and) hasn't been checked already in the past 12 hours, which is easy to do since the conditionals are simple. The 12 hour delay is also easy since the system will just check when the last time the command with args "/alts [player]" was called.

    I can assure you that this would be easy to implement and its much more secure than the current system, hence your concern for the players' privacy.

    Even if we remove it for JMODs, the system will remain the same in complexity since MODs will still need access, according to your response. Removing the function wouldn't really make a difference with this solution. However, I wouldn't mind if it was removed from JMODs.
     
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    #26 StrikerSly, Apr 6, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
  7. AmbitionZ_

    AmbitionZ_ Highly Established Member

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    Little late to the party but I'd like to throw in my opinion
    I disagree with the part where they shouldn't have access to do it. They can sometimes have legitimate reasons.
    This is a pretty good example, if they have a reason to believe it could be a permbanned player, they should be able to check. It also shows one of the many flaws in the current system, in that it will affect his play style against said player, and there's not really anything he can do about it, except for not using the command in the first place, and if they believe it could be a permbanned account, then this could put the jmod in a tough situation.

    But I agree that there's not really a good reason for Jmods to have access to the full command. As a former Jmod, the only thing you could do if it was linked to a banned account was report to a higher up, and showing it without igns would serve the exact same purpose whilst protecting the privacy of the player in question. The higher up could then take care of the issue and the situation would be handled. The idea here is that the situation would be handled easily and efficiently, while preventing possible abuse of the command.
     
  8. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, the current system is inherently flawed since its impossible for a staff member to /alts somebody without indirectly "abusing" albeit unintentionally. Better to make the system in such a way that avoids (potential to) abuse, promotes fairness and is equally effective.
     
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  9. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    Thanks for your suggestion. The /alts command no longer shows a list of connected accounts, it instead shows how many connected kicked, autobanned, banned and permbanned accounts a player has. The command still works the same for Mods.

    Not going to lock this thread to allow discussion about this change, as it hasn't been implemented exactly as suggested.
     
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  10. Squidward

    Squidward BEST WARZ SMOD NO KAPPA (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    Thank you! This reassures the community a bit more since there was multiple reports of JMods abusing it on WarZ to an extent that is unimaginable. You're not even a WarZ SMod yet this is the most information the public community has had. Appreciate it.
     
  11. XeeClutch

    XeeClutch Member

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    Love the idea, yet my only problem is, most staff on this server don't play fair them selves. What if there is a situation when a staff member leaks the persons name???
     
  12. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot genuinely.

    I do have to question, why do MODs still have access to the way it was before? It seems like that won't entirely fix the issue but this is a great step.
     
  13. Urnes

    Urnes Active Member

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    Just because staff members are required to do something doesn't mean they're always doing it. There's no way to know if a staff member after using the /alts command disclosed that information verbally in a private discord (or another communication application) call/chat....unless you're big brother
     
  14. NMHRODMAN1SBEST

    NMHRODMAN1SBEST WarZ | Ex Staff

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    But there's been instances of certain JMod's leaking information. If they can't keep it secret, it should be taken away until they obtain a higher rank.
     
  15. Dixse

    Dixse Member

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    i very much agree it has happend to me before i 100% came back to warZ so i had to reveal and 100% come back instead of being undercover and anonymous to evreyone.
     
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