Idea How to Improve McBuild

Pegleg98 · Jul 13, 2015

[READ FIRST] I have something to say before I go on with this:

I want everyone to look at this with an open mind. Remember that while you might find some of these features to be useless, but there are some who won't. A feature shouldn't be ignored because one person or group dislikes it and/or won't use it.
These are my ideas, I do not think they will make the server perfect, and I do not think that these ideas are perfect. I have changed my mind about McBuild before, and I am perfectly willing to do it again if you can give me a good reason to.
Obviously the server is not complete yet and there are many features to be added and changed, but that does not mean we cannot discuss it. If anything, the best time to discuss this is while they are making these changes, before everything is finalized, so we get an outcome we are all satisfied with.
If you believe that your server (this goes for everyone) is the image of perfection, and is superior in every way to the other, then LEAVE NOW. Because if you don't, I suspect you're going to be seriously triggered by this thread.

Now, with that being said, let us begin.

I. A Plot World

Build's system of maps is probably one of Build's biggest advantages. It's much more suitable for map building with more space, and more options for permissions. However, the one disadvantage is it's not great for displaying your work publicly. Plot worlds are great for smaller builds that aren't meant to be submitted. This is where the building for fun would take place, separate from player's maps. Plot worlds are also great for sharing your builds with the entire community, since any old wanderer could see it. Plot worlds are especially good for contests, which I hope to see more of in the future. Including a plot world (a Creative feature) in the server would also make "The Merge", actually seem more like a merge than a replacement as it is now.

II. Changing the Ranks

This has probably been the biggest subject surrounding The Merge. I'm not going to get into Creative's ranks vs. Build's ranks, to avoid this thread being too long. I'm going to only focus on what I think it should be.
In the past, I would have wanted a more complex system. However, after thinking about this for a while, I have come up with a simpler system that resembles a split version of McBuild's trusted rank. I think we should have two separate ranks above the default. A "Trusted" rank, and an "Experienced" rank. These might have different names to fit the building theme of the server, but we'll just use these terms.
The purpose of the "Trusted" rank should be to give people better building tools based on their maturity and ability to handle WorldEdit. People who are immature and/or cannot do this, won't get the rank. The trusted rank should also not be difficult to get, as so many want it to be. It should be based on nothing more than their behavior, dedication to the server, and responsibility/knowledge with WorldEdit, rather than their skill in building. However, builds should still be posted in apps to ensure the applicant is actually doing something.
The "Experienced" rank would be given to people who actively contribute to the community. Instead of lifting restrictions, this rank would grant more space for those who create more content. This rank, in a way, acts as an alternative payment method, by paying for blank maps with physical contributions to the community as opposed to financial ones. The "Experienced" rank would come after the "Trusted" rank, and be a great deal more challenging since you have to be an active builder and produce plenty of maps/builds to get it.
I think that splitting McPvp's current idea of the Trusted rank like this, and making a part of it easier to achieve, is more logical than keeping it together and making it difficult as a whole.
Promotions:
Promotions should be done through applications, because this is the most fair, efficient, and reasonable way to do it. No one has given me a good reason thus far why this system is flawed. Brawl has used it for ages without issues.

III. More Options for Worlds

The last time I was on Build, there were two options when you create a new world. Can't remember the names, but the options were basically either "Flat" or "Void". I think there should be more presets such as "Ocean" or "Snow", or maybe even options to add natural features from the game such as ravines and villages. I don't think it would be that hard to code, since it's really just the single player flat world generator, and it could potentially save a lot of terraforming time.

IV. Include Essentials

Creative had some basic essentials commands, that while not super important, come in handy sometimes. /top and /sethome are probably the two I use the most, and I had no idea how much I actually use these until I went to build and realized I didn't have them. Most of the McPvp players will probably think this a little silly because they never had it, but I think the Essentials commands from creative should be included, and they're not a lot of trouble to add anyway as long as they're already there.

If you would like to add anything, or comment on something, be my guest.

If you flame, I will report your post and it will likely be deleted by a mod.

Have a nice day

Sir_Inge · Jul 13, 2015

All for the ranks
All for the essentials
I'm against world types because the generation might cause lag.
I'm not so sure about the rest...

Pegleg98 · Jul 13, 2015

Sir_Inge said: ↑

All for the ranks
All for the essentials
I'm against world types because the generation might cause lag.
I'm not so sure about the rest...
Click to expand...

Possibly, I'm not a coder so I have no idea how much lag something does or doesn't cause.

furtles · Jul 13, 2015

I. Plots and such

I have heard chatter about Build implementing a plot system, but I'm not sure. Personally, I never saw why people like the plot system. Why have just a small piece of land when you can have much more? However, I know many players enjoy plots and I think it could be a good addition. For now, to advertise builds you could always say "Hey, come check out my Build" in global chat as long as you don't spam it. Also, you could post a thread on the forums with pictures of you build and an ID. On MCPVP, we had a section dedicated to that. I think having competitions would be awesome, we had those for specific things on MCPVP.

II. Ranks and such

I have never wanted a rank system on Build, nor do I see a need for one. I think the Trusted rank will stay for experienced map makers, or enthusiastic builders. If there is multiple ranks, Trusted should be very hard to get. In my opinion, Trusted should be very hard to get anyway. I think the idea of an Experienced rank could be cool. As opposed to applications, you could get an extra map if you spend so many hours on the server.

III. World Stuff

I think that could be cool. Maybe having world options for starting in a certain Biome or something. Love that idea, especially since vanilla terrain is always cool for maps.

IV. Commands

I don't really see a need for these commands, but there's no harm in adding them. I think there might be a /set spawn or something to set where people spawn when they tp to the map. Could be wrong about that, but if there isn't, there should be that command.

Overall, nice thread. It's nice how you went about it!

mewsed · Jul 13, 2015

I don't agree with the first two, but last two are fine. Especially happy about III. IV isn't that important to me since you can setwarps.

Trego_7777777 · Jul 14, 2015

Adding an alternate Plot server would be kinda cool. I don't think it would be used much for more than smaller, fun, little builds though. I know that's what intended for but it might seem kinda pointless.

I like the idea of having more world types, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be added. I don't know if it would cause lag though.

I'm not sure what comes with Essentials but I think instead of doing /home you can set warps - /warp home.

Doges · Jul 14, 2015

Plots - +0
The idea of this sounds cool, however it could be confusing to newer players.
Ranks- +0
I support the idea of applying for trusted, but it should be difficult to obtain. It also provides a nice answer if someone asks if they can have trusted.
More world options- +1
I would love to see naturally generated terrain, as long as lag issues are fixed.
Essentials- -1
I would rather see pieces of that plugin added if needed. It takes away from the aspect of build being completely original in my eyes.

Great Ideas, overall neutral on most of them.

DeadRhos · Jul 14, 2015

I. Plot World

I can see why you'd want it but there's no real point to it when you can just teleport to other maps. It would overcomplicate things for new players and anyway, why would you want to build on a tiny plot when you've got a giant 512x512 map to build on? (-1)

II. Changing the Ranks

One of Build's big selling points is that everyone has an equal opportunity to build things, and having more ranks would completely detract from that. This is why Trusted is so hard to obtain. (-1)

III. More Options for Worlds

People have been asking for this for months, maybe years. It would be nice to have but as other people have said, world generation would be extremely laggy. (+0)

IV. Include Essentials

For your specific problems you can just use //unstuck or //up and /setwarp, but if there's particular commands that should be included then it's likely that you'll see them added in the coming months. (+0)

ikemulti · Jul 14, 2015

About "III. More Options for Worlds"..

I'd like to add that there's a possibilty to create natural generated maps 0n McBuild.
But only mods/admins can create them, because these maps don't fit the regular map size (512x512).
These are infinite maps, means they don't have world borders.

I remember crashing McBuild quite often when I tried to generate such a map.
Especially snow maps and water/ocean maps cause a lot of lag, that's the reason why rain/snow was turned off on the old McBuild.

Flavorous · Jul 21, 2015

Pegleg98 said: ↑

I. A Plot World

Build's system of maps is probably one of Build's biggest advantages. It's much more suitable for map building with more space, and more options for permissions. However, the one disadvantage is it's not great for displaying your work publicly. Plot worlds are great for smaller builds that aren't meant to be submitted. This is where the building for fun would take place, separate from player's maps. Plot worlds are also great for sharing your builds with the entire community, since any old wanderer could see it. Plot worlds are especially good for contests, which I hope to see more of in the future. Including a plot world (a Creative feature) in the server would also make "The Merge", actually seem more like a merge than a replacement as it is now.
Click to expand...

As it is right now, Build was developed mostly for players to develop gamemode maps, for CTF, Sab, Maze, etc. The replacement of these would ruin MCBuild entirely. MCBuild is mostly for people who want to work an build, it's not exactly for those people that want to go out and get the spotlight for the best looking build (Although sometimes it is.)
I do agree with the idea of having plots be an addition to MCBuild, but the removal of the main server function (Individual maps - which, for players, is so far better.)

Pegleg98 said: ↑

II. Changing the Ranks

This has probably been the biggest subject surrounding The Merge. I'm not going to get into Creative's ranks vs. Build's ranks, to avoid this thread being too long. I'm going to only focus on what I think it should be.
In the past, I would have wanted a more complex system. However, after thinking about this for a while, I have come up with a simpler system that resembles a split version of McBuild's trusted rank. I think we should have two separate ranks above the default. A "Trusted" rank, and an "Experienced" rank. These might have different names to fit the building theme of the server, but we'll just use these terms.
The purpose of the "Trusted" rank should be to give people better building tools based on their maturity and ability to handle WorldEdit. People who are immature and/or cannot do this, won't get the rank. The trusted rank should also not be difficult to get, as so many want it to be. It should be based on nothing more than their behavior, dedication to the server, and responsibility/knowledge with WorldEdit, rather than their skill in building. However, builds should still be posted in apps to ensure the applicant is actually doing something.
The "Experienced" rank would be given to people who actively contribute to the community. Instead of lifting restrictions, this rank would grant more space for those who create more content. This rank, in a way, acts as an alternative payment method, by paying for blank maps with physical contributions to the community as opposed to financial ones. The "Experienced" rank would come after the "Trusted" rank, and be a great deal more challenging since you have to be an active builder and produce plenty of maps/builds to get it.
I think that splitting McPvp's current idea of the Trusted rank like this, and making a part of it easier to achieve, is more logical than keeping it together and making it difficult as a whole.
Promotions:
Promotions should be done through applications, because this is the most fair, efficient, and reasonable way to do it. No one has given me a good reason thus far why this system is flawed. Brawl has used it for ages without issues.
Click to expand...

For now, the only limitation to World Edit on MCBuild, is that a single operation not go over 500,00 blocks. Trusted rank? Not necessary. Experienced however, I kinda see where you're going with this. Rather that more space (Because that will start to cause lag), maybe have the ability to create an extra map or two? The way you're making it sound, Trusted is no different than the average player on Build (Because we have access to just about anything.)

Pegleg98 said: ↑

III. More Options for Worlds

The last time I was on Build, there were two options when you create a new world. Can't remember the names, but the options were basically either "Flat" or "Void". I think there should be more presets such as "Ocean" or "Snow", or maybe even options to add natural features from the game such as ravines and villages. I don't think it would be that hard to code, since it's really just the single player flat world generator, and it could potentially save a lot of terraforming time.
Click to expand...

The "Ocean" or "Snow" option would cause so many problems. You can't just go in and tell the server to generate this, this, this, and that. It's just easier to say - Grass and 3 layers of dirt below - or - nothing. If more than one "Ocean" or "Snow" map were to be generated at the same time, the amount of lag would most likely be so immense the server would crash. The server has enough to deal with already, and it doesn't need to have extra generation algorithms to worry about. World Edit is there to fix that problem, and some people can terraform by hand just fine (Even though it takes Forever.)

Pegleg98 said: ↑

IV. Include Essentials

Creative had some basic essentials commands, that while not super important, come in handy sometimes. /top and /sethome are probably the two I use the most, and I had no idea how much I actually use these until I went to build and realized I didn't have them. Most of the McPvp players will probably think this a little silly because they never had it, but I think the Essentials commands from creative should be included, and they're not a lot of trouble to add anyway as long as they're already there.
Click to expand...

World edit (and some server commands) can replace some of these commands:

/top = //thru
/sethome = /warp

and MCPVP tries its best to stay independent from other plugins... Almost all of them are adapted or original to MCPVP (Brawl).

I hope this may have answered some of your concerns.
If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me via the links in my signature!

~N

Pegleg98 · Jul 22, 2015

kfact said: ↑

As it is right now, Build was developed mostly for players to develop gamemode maps, for CTF, Sab, Maze, etc. The replacement of these would ruin MCBuild entirely. MCBuild is mostly for people who want to work an build, it's not exactly for those people that want to go out and get the spotlight for the best looking build (Although sometimes it is.)
I do agree with the idea of having plots be an addition to MCBuild, but the removal of the main server function (Individual maps - which, for players, is so far better.)

For now, the only limitation to World Edit on MCBuild, is that a single operation not go over 500,00 blocks. Trusted rank? Not necessary. Experienced however, I kinda see where you're going with this. Rather that more space (Because that will start to cause lag), maybe have the ability to create an extra map or two? The way you're making it sound, Trusted is no different than the average player on Build (Because we have access to just about anything.)

The "Ocean" or "Snow" option would cause so many problems. You can't just go in and tell the server to generate this, this, this, and that. It's just easier to say - Grass and 3 layers of dirt below - or - nothing. If more than one "Ocean" or "Snow" map were to be generated at the same time, the amount of lag would most likely be so immense the server would crash. The server has enough to deal with already, and it doesn't need to have extra generation algorithms to worry about. World Edit is there to fix that problem, and some people can terraform by hand just fine (Even though it takes Forever.)

World edit (and some server commands) can replace some of these commands:

/top = //thru
/sethome = /warp

and MCPVP tries its best to stay independent from other plugins... Almost all of them are adapted or original to MCPVP (Brawl).

I hope this may have answered some of your concerns.
If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me via the links in my signature!

~N
Click to expand...

Supposedly not all the restrictions for WE have been added yet. If it's going to stay this way Trusted may not be necessary.

I can understand keeping independent from other plugins, but the reason I brought up essentials was because everyone knows it. The commands are fairly obvious and easy to use. What I would suggest instead of essentials would be to use the same or similar command names, to make it less confusing. And then put them all in the help menu too, of course.

NateTheDerp · Sep 21, 2015

I don't like the idea of plots, creative had it but build doesn't. Like Doges said it wouldn't be original.

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Idea How to Improve McBuild

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Idea How to Improve McBuild

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