Should instakills be kept?

I can honestly see pyro becoming a non-insta class. I think the way newer players use it in midfield is terrible and a main factor in the loss of other newer players. If, for example, pyro dealt 3.5 hearts of true damage, with an additional buff (either mobility, or some was to make setting on fire easier), pyro would keep it's effective counter against classes such as heavy and soldier, whilst losing much of an advantage against classes like chemist and necro, who have higher true damage health pools (lots of heal pots, 6 steaks). I could see this being implemented in to the game and have no issue, if soldier was changed also.

Personally I think that instakills are the essence of assassin and archer. Whilst being annoying, without instakills archer would become far less able to kill, and assassin would lose much of the map knowledge needed to be effective, due to the element of surprise that is lost when taking longer to kill opponents.

 

+1 I like your disclaimer
+2 I like it when people promote (hopefully) productive discussion
+3 Hey guys it's Nom

Anyway, I believe Insta-Kills are an interesting aspect to the game, and all of the past reworks, nerfs, and buffs centered around them have added to the game in surprisingly developmental ways. Now, I don't know about any of you, but I see instant kills a challenge, not a reason to be bitter.

Now, if you haven't decided to ignore my reasoning because of my differentiating opinion, you can read the more in-depth section below:

While they may be easier to use than most class, they certainly aren't broken. Pyro? Get a medic. Or chemist. Or elf. Assassin? Block.

Basically, all I'm saying is these classes have counters, and if the counters are too hard to come by, do something about it. Ask staff. Get the community together.

And while I certainly agree that they might be overpowered, or even broken, most of us have decided to stop being butthurt and change our playstyle to match them. The meta develops. And what happens if you remove the centerpiece of the meta? It falls apart. I'm not saying CTF can die, because I don't believe it ever will, but it might just change for the worse if we're not too careful about what we wish for.

DISCLAIMER:
I have opinions. So do you. I respect your opinions. So are you going to do the same justice for me?

 

I think this video would help:

 

I say keep em'. Honestly if it's balanced, why remove it? There's counters to them, ya know?

 

The problem is that they are very high risk/high reward and different people like/dislike the dangerous gameplay that comes along with them

 

Keep in mind that the removal of instakills would come with a massive nerf to Soldier.

 

To be honest, this question seems a bit like a trick one, like something along the lines of 'what weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of bricks?'

I mean, the key word to this hypothetical question is balanced. If the game were to be perfectly balanced with instakills, it'd be the same as it being perfectly balanced without instakills. The only difference would be the audience you draw into the game, because either way the game would be just as balanced.

The question is; would you rather have an audience of new players show up to balanced instakills on both sides, or would you rather let skill determine the victor, with skilled players on both sides achieving the same effect?

 

@Rhoske No **** that's needed anyways

About instakills, I slept on it and I don't see how instakills can be balanced.

 

We're supposed to not argue about whether instakills are balanced, we're arguing about whether they add to the gameplay overall. You can assume that Archer, Pyro, Assassin, and other affected classes would be changed so that they are still balanced after removing instakills.

 

Please dont start the "instakills take no skill" discussion-its already happened 103947372728 times, is annoying and pointless. Just assume that every class requires an equal amount of skill

 

Like a engi is camping somewhere and eating cake the whole time, you can't kill him without skill/instakill

 

After the nerf, I can typically take out engies as heavy. Also, there's something called teamwork. You don't need to be solo all the time and use instakills.

 

+1 whenever someone realizes that teamwork is a good strategy in a team-based game

 

i dont care

 

Typical HGers and Brawlers have so much in common!!!!

 

Insta-kills are needed
Chemist = Hard to kill with any class apart from insta kill
Same as heavy soldier and some more

Its also needed to take out defences so it is very important to the game imo

 

Well the idea is it's balanced lol
So don't base your decisions off classes now.

 

Instakills have been the source of balancing the game out for years. People who want them gone are just trying to find a way to make the game easier for themselves. Instakilling classes in general are a great introduction to the game and can offer a taste in a playstyle for newbies to ctf.

TL;DR
Reasons why instakills should not be removed:
- More noob friendly
- Easier to play for laggy pc users than other pvp based classes
- Can produce quite a challenge to stay alive during gameplay

 

But they don't. Not every class takes the same amount of skill to do something. They all require skill yes, b

Just because insta-kills add something to the game doesn't mean they are good for it. At least not as they are now.

You said for pyro use medic or chemist right? But that's stupid, because not everyone has chemist, and if there is more then a pyro in the flag ur pretty much skrewed. Pyro shouldn't force you to go another class.

Blocking is a really bad concept in practice. If assassin keeps an insta-kill, it should be without blocking being a factor.

I dun see why everyone assumes people who complain about insta-kills are butthurt. It's really a dumb way of trying to make us seem lesser so our opinions seem less. I freakin main an insta-kill, and rarely get insta-kills anymore.
You're right, the meta does change. And that's what we should do, change it from an insta-kill centric meta to a non insta-kill centric one. Insta-kills are not the core of the game. The only one that really is is pyro, but if we removed assassin and archer, not much would be affected. Sure it would be harder to kill campers, but other then that, nothing. And we won't remove the classes, just rework them so that they don't unfairly one-shot people.



@Lucamaniax

Just because they have been a way to balance the game, doesn't mean they are a good one. That's like saying wars are an excellent way to fix disputes, just because people have done it in the past.

Insta-kills don't introduce crap to the game for newbs though. The only insta-kill that they can access is archer. The other 2 they have to buy. All they do is make it seem lik premium is pay-to-win to newbs.

More noob friendly is a double edged sword. On one hand, the newbs get high power for low skill. But on the other, newbs get destroyed by the insta-kills they don't have access to, such as pyro and assassin, and what's especially bad, is that these insta-kills come out of the blue. There is no indication of player skill, so the newb gets discouraged, and quits.

tbh, if you have a laggy pc, that'll effect everything you play, insta-kill or not. You should not balance a game around whether or not someone has the ability to play it. You don't see people saying, "hmm, let's add an overpowered item to the game just in case someone has a bad machine."

A challenge is fine, as long as it's not too one-sided. You see, there is no challenge when you're trying to kill a pyro as like heavy. It may be challenging for the heavy, but for the pyro it's really easy. It should be challenging for both players, or at least more challenging for the pyro then it is now.

 

Hmm, I think you've got the wrong idea of balanced. In balanced gameplay, a class doesn't have 4 classes that it hard counters and 4 classes that hard counter it. Also, I don't see your point with instakills being more noob friendly. I think the appropriate term would be 'easier'. Let's consider it from the point of view of a noob. They join, they get headshot, or sniped or whatever. Then they get assassinated and pyroed. They're just trying to have fun and fight but they keep getting one shot! Is that fun for you? When getting to know the gamemode, instakills are bad. They're a pain in the neck and make it really hard for newer players to get the hang of things. Sure, they can go on and buy classes. However, once you buy a class, you probably have enough knowledge of the gamemode to use all classes and know how the game works, so you're not really a noob.

I am personally a laggy pc user, I get around 20 fps, normally less. I use soldier. chemist, and ninja perfectly fine with a laggy pc. If by lag, you mean 10 fps, then they really should get a better computer. There's no point in gaming without getting playable fps.

A challenge is nice, but most of the time with instakills is based around hoping the other team sucks. When running across the map, if enemy archers are at all good, you are really going to die. If there's assassins hiding around every corner, it really is a pain in the ass to block around every corner. A challenge is great, but that isn't really a challenge.

Anyways, some of this stuff we shouldn't be discussing on this thread.

@Lucamaniax

@obikenobi21 You nailed that post ;]