Idea Pyro Rework Concepts

Hey everyone.

It’s finally here - the community pyro thread. This was a project I started a long time ago and it’s been created with tons of feedback from multiple community members. I’m happy to finally be able to share it with you. I’ll be splitting this thread into 5 different parts to make it easier on the eyes. The first 3 are the most important. Please read everything if you can; it would be informative. If you post something and the answer is in this post, I’ll simply ask you to read the thread - so I’d read it before hand.

Quick note before we begin. Regardless of the change that happens, we will be able to make changes a lot quicker now. We're not looking for a perfect fix here, the balancing can be done later - we just need you to work with us and trust us on that ^^. (Remember, all number can be tweaked, don't worry about that.)

Part 1. Explanation and Information

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The thread works like this. Each number is it's own concept. I've ignored steaks and numbers for now because I just want pure concept. We'll get to the crunching later. When approaching this thread, try to think of Pyro alone. Classes and things can always be balanced around the change so for now, just try to think of these concepts would work and be fun. Now that that’s out of the way, here are some other major points.

°Pyro
We are still looking to keep it defensive and will cater to that. We’d rather not have to heavily nerf all the capping classes as well, so if we can avoid that – we will. Pyro will still be an anti tank/armor class, so keep that in mind. Pyro still needs to be able to effectively do it’s job.

°Main Changes
We’d like pyro to become more versatile and less camp-y. We’re going to try and tone down it’s spam as well (Flint and Steel/Bow spam). One of the biggest problem with pyro is that precision and spam achieve the same reward.

°Instakills vs. Non Instakills
Now, there is a constant complaint on instakills. I’m going to state right here that I don’t want to see that argument start up on this thread. You may hate instakills you may see their value, but that is not what this thread is about. Think about each concept individually and try to imagine if they would be able to work in game. You can mention changes like, “Concept 1: If x class was changed, this concept could work if this part is tweaked,” or something like that.

°True Damage
True damage seems like the easy way out, but we already have so many classes that just beat each other down. If pyro is given true damage, there should be something flashy, something fun, something to make people play pyro instead of another class. If pyro’s “cool ability,” of the instakill is taken, it needs a substitute.

Part 2. Instakill Reworks

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1. Layered Instakill
This one would still allow for an insta kill while making it more difficult to pull off. If the Pyro is unable to instakill, they still have a large damage output.

-When Pyro is on fire: Axe deals true damage

°Fire damage will be removed OR reduced (for Pyro)​

-When an enemy is on fire: Axe deals double true damage
-When both the Pyro and an enemy is on fire: Axe instakills
-Flint and Steel would be limited

°Stackable and regen / XP bar and regen
°Single item with quick cool down
​

2. Mobility Instakill
Instakill work same as current pyro, except it’s based on bow pull-back - giving the enemy more time to possibly escape and promotes movement on pyros.

-Pyro gains a full XP bar
-Pulling the bow back will drain the XP bar (seconds can be changed)
Release arrow instantly after 3rd stage - enemies on fire for 5 seconds, 3.5 hearts explosion

1 second - enemies on fire for 3 seconds, 3 hearts explosion
2 seconds - enemies on fire for 2 seconds, 2.5 hearts explosion
3 seconds - enemies on fire for 1 seconds, 2 hearts explosion
4 seconds - enemies do not get lit on fire, 1.5 hearts explosion
5+ seconds - enemies do not get lit on fire, 1 hearts explosion​

Part 3. Non Instakill Reworks

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1. Axe-tinguish
This takes out large amounts of health at a time, so the pyro cannot solo as easily, yet again, is still able to be a powerhouse on defense.

-The drawback on the bow determines the radius of the fire explosion
-Damage is based on how long the player has been on fire

°Hit instantly to deal 7+ hearts (max)
°As time goes on, damage goes lower
°Players will be on fire for 4(?) seconds max (ex: 7hrts, 3 seconds=6, 2 seconds=5, 1 seconds=4)
°Hitting a player extinguishes the fire
​

Suggestions:

-Gain health back after hit with axe​

2. Frenzy Mode
Made so Pyro now has to use their ability wisely rather than camp in the back with their bow, perhaps making pyro more mobile again.

-Right click Magma Cream
-Iron axe turns into diamond axe w/ Looting (for effect)
-Anyone within a <2 block radius of pyro gets lit on fire

°High damage output​

-If the pyro survives frenzy mode, they set off a “finisher” explosion and anyone that is still on fire will lose (x) hearts
-Frenzy mode lasts (x) seconds (cooldown)​

Other thoughts that are up for debate or suggestion:

-Axe deals no knockback [during frenzy]
-Pyro gains debuff (slowness, take more damage) [during frenzy]
-Steak is removed and transferred into (x) extra hearts, steak is returned at the end of frenzy mode [during frenzy]
-Not in frenzy, true damage (ex: 3/4 hearts). In frenzy extra true damage ( ex: 5/6 hearts)​

Part 4. What We Need From You

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Please let us know your opinion of these concept. Also, if you have any ideas yourself or if you would like to take pieces of these concepts and make a new one, feel free to post those here or better, send them to me in a forum PM or on skype (if we're contacts). I can't guarantee they'll be added to the list, but they may be used to help us narrow down what's wanted in the final product. Try to focus on the one's we have, though.

This is for real so be serious about your feedback please, we'll take it all into consideration if it's calm and presentable.

Part 5. Credit

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As I've mentioned, because of the amount of people that have and will contribute, credit will go to the community. No two or three people did more than the rest so credit will be going to everyone. If you help, then you and everyone who sees your contribution will know you've helped.

Thank you guys for reading! If you need clarification on anything, please let me know.

Final Notes:
1. We are able to make changes more quickly on Brawl, so once we make a change don't think it will take 3 months for things to be tweaked. You'll have to bear with us for a bit, but we're not looking for a perfect fix. We'll find a rework and then balance as we go. We'll work as hard and as fast as we can c:

2. Flint&Steel. No matter which rework we decide for pyro, flint and steel will be changed to be limited and less spammy. So don't worry about the current flint and steel being a problem.

 

Quick note that I mentioned under Layered Instakill that's relevant to all reworks. Flint and Steel will be getting a change regardless of which rework we go with. Flint&Steel will be limited so it's less spammable and a pyro will have to put effort into using it correctly.

Sorry, should have brought this up. When finalizing this idea, we discussed a reduced fire damage for pyro or a removal of fire damage all together (for the Layered Instakill). You deal more damage when the enemy is on fire anyway, so the only reason to light yourself would be to instakill. What we were trying to do with this one was a sorta "pick your fights" deal. And yes, for this one there would be limitations of flint and steel. Fire charges, one charge with a cool down like mage, Molotov, somethin' like that.

The Pyro's ability is shifted to a magma cream and must be activated. My personal dirt with this is I'm not a huge fan of main ability cool-downs, but this concept was a more "out of the box" rework than the rest. When you right click the cream, if an enemy is right next to you they will automatically be lit on fire and the Pyro is basically in berserker mode.

Don't underestimate 3 seconds, 1 second is actually quite a lot of time in CTF ^^. The exact numbers may be changed, but the goal with this was to make pyros aim and work towards their kills, and if they get outplayed by their enemy they are more vulnerable.

Read mah new note ^

Oo, gaining health, I like that idea. I'll put it under extra suggestions for that one, thank ya.

Wekaness where you deal less damage would kinda go against the point of frenzy mode so I'm assuming you mean take more damage, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for the feedback so far guys c:

 

Interesting concept. I feel it would be slightly overpowered on defense because of all the extra people in the flag room. Would make pyro more useful on offense, but, I still feel removing their armor may be slightly overpowered on offense because then classes can be very easily two shot. Perhaps one/two pieces or only for like a second or something like that?

 

Okay, kinda liking this idea a bit actually, so I'm gonna roll with it for now.

But explain that a bit. What's making the offenders able to take out a pyro more easily, because it can't instakill or.. something else? Not sure if I'm misreading something ^^.

Also, should we can give the players that get hit some compensation for losing their armor for that time? Like they deal extra damage or something, I dunno.

 

Gotcha. Okay. I think I'll take this back to the google docs and polish it up a little bit and see what you guys think. Thanks again for the feedback ^-^.