Should instakills be kept?

Keep instakills. Learn to block people.

 

It's not that simple. That post is completely ignorant @__PHP

 

So, uh...
I never said instant kills were a good thing.
I actually believe the contrary.
Don't call me stupid if you're agreeing with me.
Idiot.
Anyway...
I agree with you in that they shouldn't be an element. But I think we need to adjust the game slowly. If instant kills aren't being removed right now, they aren't. Stop trying to rush things, and give the community time to adjust to changes.
For example, do something like give pyro more armor but a 2-shot instead of 1. Or make its hits all do critical hit damage if the enemy is on fire. These are good ideas, in my opinion, because they keep the current fundamentals of pyro while reducing (and not completely eliminating) the current concept of its use.

 

Instakills can drive new players away. Instakills can also keep these players as it is a thrill to kill an instakill class as well as playing it yourself. I for my part only got into CTF because I loved the archer system and wanted to get better at it. Now I understand it is frustrating to be killed by one, but hey, this is CTF, respawn and move on.

All current instakill classes have a way to be countered (more or less). Pyro, this one is difficult as when you get lit on fire you are usually in range of his axe. This one is the most likely to change, but counters exist. Assassin could be much nicer and less ping based, but for the most part, blocking works and it is satisfying to take him out while he can instakill you. Archer, listen to arrows that land next to you and avoid open spaces if you see one.

Of course you can't always counter them if you are not aware of their existence, but for the most part players can handle them. They are useful in situations of a very high defense, to cause confusion amongst the group, to recov from a spawncamping flag carrier, for crowd control.

CTF wouldn't be CTF if instakills were taken out. Much more is the question about: How well can I counter them? If a class is too strong in that matter, improve the type of counter, don't remove the instakill in general. =)

 

Just because they can be countered doesn't mean they are good for da game. The classes can do the exact same role if reworked, it just wouldn't be done as fast, and would require the player actually hitting them more then once ;o

 

@Nohox What good would archer be if there was an actual counter to it that everyone could use?

 

It really depends on the rework. It was incredibly difficult to find solutions for pyro, because of his powerhouse character. Imagine archer without instakill, as soon as one arrow hits the player, he is alerted and might have time to look for cover. Playing archer successfully is already a difficult task, keeping up his strength while removing the instakill requires a big change if it'd work at all, which would go at cost of archers simplicity.

The whole debate is very difficult to handle, as it is based on an assumption: The classes will be balanced when instakill is removed. It might be possible, but given the benefits instakill brings, the uncertainty that they will be balanced without, and the possible complexity of the class makes it difficult to judge if this feature of CTF should be removed.

 

@Nohox You can't just remove archer's one ability and say, "without, it's useless, we can't remove it!" which seems to be what you did there. Any class without it's instakill ability would be trash. That's why you need to rework it. I think it would be cool to change archer's role of killwhoring to support. Also, I disagree that archer is hard to play. It has viable armor, which makes it able to defend itself against ninjas and assassins that come up to it. It's not very hard to aim your bow a little bit above to in front of someone, almost anyone can do it. Yes, it does take a lot of skill to play archer at an elite level, killing almost anyone.

 

I've been seeing a lot of complaints about insta-kills being the ones making the game fast-paced....
But wtf does fast paced even mean to you? What is fast paced about archer? Shoot and arrow and miss, shoot and arrow and hit, repeat process. You may kill fast, but that doesn't mean it's exciting for you. I find ninja the most fast-paced class mostly because of it's many abilities that you have to use in combat, and the skill it takes to use it effectively. Pyro, how is that fast paced?

Does fast paced mean the speed at which you die, or does it mean how the class is played?

Also, just because they won't be insta-kills, doesn't mean it won't be fast paced. Do you not consider ninja fast-paced? Or how about Elf? Is soldier boring to you?

 

To be honest, archer already can be a support class. It's just the mentality of the current players that needs to change. For example, when I played archer, it was basically the same as it is now. Sure, I'd try to get kills because practice makes perfect; but at the same time, I dropped all of that to target the holder of the flag, or to play defensively if I had to.

I'm not trying to make myself seem better (I'm actually a terrible archer now xD), but my point is that archer very much can be used as support. It just isn't, because most of the current players choose not to have a "support" mindset.

 

well, it seems to me that the argument for removing instakills is because they're not noob friendly and they generally work as hard counters to eachother and other classes, which isn't great for the game. to me this point is redundant because we're meant to assume that ctf will be balanced, so these points shouldn't really be considered as a balanced game would have removed these aspects

 

Is it even possible to balance instakills? In my opinion, it's not.

@Zaex_Warrior Any class can be used for a support role, but no class has a set support role because they are all used differently. Medic is the closest it comes to being a support class. However, medic is still fine by itself and is a great capping class, which makes it not so much of a support class.

 

a fast paced class is a class that can achieve it's goals quickly and efficiently, at least that's how i view it. so ninja/chemist/instakill are all fast paced but classes such as mage/necro/engi are not.

i honestly don't see the argument behind this. if we're assuming that ctf will be balanced either way then why should we bother removing instakills cuz all it does is slow the game down

 

A game can be balanced but it can still not be fun. Instakills make the game Rock Paper Scissors and a lot of noobs don't like that.

 

Pyro > Soldier
Soldier > Assassin
Assassin > Pyro

w07
Perfect counters.

 

I don;t think the classes make gameplay fast paced so much as the map. Blackout has faced paced gameplay. You die, you get right back in. FOr big maps, like Norse Dominion, it takes a while to get back into the action.

@Zaex_Warrior That's not really balanced...

 

That's what I'm arguing. Who says removing insta-kills will slow the game down?

 

Idk what you're trying to prove here my point still stands.

 

'Twas a joke m9