Should instakills be kept?

You can counter ninja capping with any class. It's just easiest with pyro.

But, I definitely get your point. The idea of a rework would be keeping the same presence but with more balance, if you get what I'm saying. So, still a powerful defensive class, but just without the instakill.

 

i understand. i'm not cemented to my view btw. if there is a class rework that leaves the game in relative balance while having no instakill to it then i'll change my mind but, at the moment, while we have no rework ideas in place for all the classes that need them, i believe it's harder to rework and have no instakill than to rework and keep instakill

 

See, this poll just sounds like personal preference to me. In a balanced situation (regardless if you think it's possible or not), would you simply like or dislike having instakills. For me, balancing instakills would be simpler because we only have to mess with 3 classes and probably buff other classes to make more equal and fun counters. By removing them, we have to change those 3, probably nerf more of the other classes and/or maybe even other game factors. This game is built on high damage, speed, and having extra health and being able to receive more health. I can see more getting changed if we remove them all together.

I always enjoy outsmarting and using mind-games to beat instakills when I'm on offense. It's a fun element that I like here, and I prefer fighting them to a chemist or heavy in a game where I can respawn, have extra health and don't lose all my stuff when I die. I do think they can and should be changed, I just personally don't think they need to be removed all together. I've always disagreed with having to change this game so much just so noobs can understand everything when they hop on. I've liked having to learn your way through the game, learning the counters, having to get better - that's what's kept me here. There's always something new for me to learn or try.

If we want to work on catering to noobs that's another question. I think we can make it easier for them but we don't have to change a bunch of stuff. We can make them a new class, noob-tube style or not, that would become the default class instead of heavy. We can add something flashy to heavy. We can make the default class soldier and give them a quick pop-up on how wall climb works. We can make a tutorial world. We can give CTF a lobby that has signs or floating words that new players are sent to. We can give them ingame pop-up tips. There are so many things we can do to help the noobs.

I would find it easier to test the game WITH changed instakills since they're already here, then, if it doesn't work - take them out. If we have the ability to live-test and make changes way more quickly, I think it couldbe a thing.

 

tbh they both are equally annoying to balance. In both situations you have to change something about every single class, and majorly change the 3 insta-kill classes. In addition, we could have all of that, high damage, speed, without having insta-kills. At this point it's personal preference, but only theoretically.

I personally don't think they can change. I don't think it's possible to balance insta-kills, they will always be either to easy to pull off and strong, or way too hard and weak. There would be a lot more to learn of there were no insta-kills as well, seeing as an insta-kill (currently), relys on one ability, but the non insta-kill classes rely on a lot more.

Making soldier the default class is a good idea though, that would definitely keep people in the game. Maybe give heavy a shield :3. But making it easier for the noobs isn't the question here. It's the frustration of instantly dying when they have no idea what happened. I would have quit if there wasn't a friend that showed me the game who was able to explain how it worked.

That argument applies both ways. We could test the game without insta-kills, since we already have non insta-kill classes. Keep in mind either way some classes just need a change (dwarf, necro, chemist).

 

I think @Quarrelt elt your ideas for a noob friendly gamemode are awesome, you should get those going. But, the reason I voted for no instakills is that I simply don't think instakills can be balanced. If you think that you can make them balanced, I would love to keep them. But I think they will always be too weak or too strong.

 

It's as if you're saying that both tomatoes and peas are healthy for you, but doesn't mean they actually are healthy o.o

once it's balanced it's gud. Ik you want a skillful game where instakills aren't a reality, but let's face it- it's not happening. CTF relies on instakills just as much as it relies on pvp. If you want to have a skillful game with no introduction or noob friendly classes such as pyro then might as well recode the whole of ctf ¯\_( ᐛ )_/¯

 

I think you borked something because Pyro is far from noob friendly

 

No, it's like people saying the sugar was good for you, when in reality too much reks you. People tried to balance CTF with insta-kills, but it turned into what we have now.

tbh, a balanced game with insta-kills isn't happening. You might as well recode all of CTF if you want that!!

 

if instakills get removed everything needs to get reworked lol, cuz then high armor classes would get too overpowered, and when thats done classes that deal lots of damage. so you pretty much have to rework everything

 

Too much of literally anything reks you. Get your biology on.

 

The only way that instakill can be balanced is if it is made harder to perform, noob friendly, and preferably slow and counterable to be noob friendly. If they are slow and hard to to peform, then there is no point in keeping an instakill. I'd rather have a higher damage dealing class then, wouldn't you? The idea is that you cannot make an instakill balanced without it being hard to perform or taking time, having greater reaction time and counterplay, and most arguments for keeping instakill classes contain that instakills make the game faster. But instakills currently only make the game faster because they're unbalanced as hell. Once they're balanced, I guarantee you that classes such as ninja and chemist will have a faster gameplay style.

 

@Pitzer Not necessarily. We could turn the the instakill classes into something that deals high damage to armored classes but gets rekt by ninja and stuff.

 

then you still need to change stuff like soldier and chemist

 

And if they were kept we would have to rework everything to balance out the power inbalance. I dun see ur point.

 

New class idea. Credit to @furtles.

 

we cannot do anything ;(

 

Well, the mods aren't lazy so they would work on getting it balanced either way until it was.

 

I'd rather have an instakill that is hard to perform and has good counterplay than have a nerf to most other classes, which is what'll happen if instakills are removed. more will happen to the game than simply "having a higher damage dealing class" if instakills are nerfed

 

Taking away instakills would screw up some classes.
What would we do with pyro?? Archer would be lame too.

 

That's why you rework them...