Should instakills be kept?

Explain why removing instakills would be a good thing? I want to hear it from you.

How about we remove bugs from CTF first before we start to rework classes. CTF hasn't even been up a week.

 

You would rather buff every class? tbh, either way you nerf classes. The current insta-kills (except maybe archer) would need to be nerfed.

Also, I dun think there is an insta-kill with good counterplay. I dun see how that's possible.

 

bufffing every class is a possibility, but a bit of a tedious one to do. i'd rather just see the instakill mechanic reworked and add in some actual game mechanics that work as counters, cuz atm, apart from elf/medic, there is no guaranteed way to counter pyro and archer unless you hide behind walls or stand in water, but that isnt really a counter. if that is done correctly then there could be some good counterplay and the classes wouldnt be nerfed that much.

 

Wut

Guy. I'm saying that instakills on both sides balance out the the game in the same way that skilled players on either side do.

I'unno where the salt came from, but sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way.

 

Alright, time for my input since I was kindly linked to this. Since this seems like the last stand type post, I'll go all out here. If I hurt you, there's no bad intentions behind it. I know I may sound biased, but it's not like I want to be.

Instakills are ****. A good amount of people that supports them either use instakills as a crutch and can't use anything else for ****all or use one of the premium classes that can actually deal with it.

This being said, it doesn't matter if a game is balanced or not. Fun should always take the priority a little more over balance and instakills aren't fun to play against unless you're on the side doing it. A lot of people over here sound like they're taking a sacrifice saying to keep them because it's a necessity to the game in its current state or saying the game is too fast paced to remove them.

It's been said through and through here again that instakills drive players out despite being balanced because they're not fun to deal with and yet it's said they're needed to main CTFs pace? To me, the people saying it's good for CTFs pace are missing the point that they're killing off new palyers and that they should be kept despite that, putting CTF on a road to failure.

Guess what? Do we actually know what a game without instakills look like to really know? Of course it's going to be slower, not going to deny that, but we should at least approach the problem rather than avoid it. Instakills get rid of a lot of coordination and strategy that CTF could've had. Let's take a Soldier running around with the flag for example. He's hard as hell to catch and you know what's the common strategy to bring in? Send in an instakill class and just win the 1v1 from there. If it needs more than one guy, then just send in the Pyro with the other guys more focused on protecting the Pyro. There's a ton of possibilities that the situation could've been approached efficiently if instakills weren't a thing in a a balanced game. Soldier teaming, baiting, lurking, bruteforcing it, and probably other things we'll never find out because we can just instakill. Of course, there's still working strategies without the need of instakills and just require a skilled player, but was there ever really a need to not use instakill?

It just goes to show how much they center the game around them. The best defenses have a Pyro in them, where everyone else is more focused on protecting the Pyro than the flag. It's not about supporting each other as a team, it just leads to everyone sucking the dick of the one instakill user to win, and I seriously doubt it's going to change if they were balanced. So in the end, it's not like they're great from a balance perspective anyway.

Before I got sidetracked horribly there, back to the aspect of fun. They also discourage skill. Why learn to PvP or having good movement when I could just rack up safemode kills with Archer or Pyro and that I'll just get taken out easily by an instakill? It won't really matter if it's balanced or not at that point because an instakill is an instakill, and said instakill class would be UP or situational as hell if it was balanced to the point where it was fair.

And don't even ****ing try to compare CTF to FPSes. MC and FPS games are way too different to even make a viable comparison to each other.

Sorry if I seemed a little all over the place. Just came out of a nap and being asked to do something. But my points still stand.

 

Might I point out that Moria gave Pyro a use besides insta-kill? It destroyed abusive soldiers. As in so long as you stayed consistent with your shots, you could stall out the soldier, and he our she would eventually die. I did it to mich once.

 

Might I point out that (as much as I liked it) Moria and Soldier in by themselves were their own problems?

So it's basically okay to add a problem to beat another problem instead of just solving both.

 

How is using pyro a problem? I understand you don't like its insta-kill factor, but I can hardly do that when the soldier is on the ceiling and I'm on the ground shooting at it.

I'm literally using pyro without its "problem."

You might wanna try reading the first sentence of the post before you get so aggressive.

 

Yes. I did read it. Moria wasn't a very well designed map anyway but it doesn't mean it should stay in the game as is. I think somewhere in my wall of text or everyone else's it says that Pyro is unbalanced and makes people quit. That's why it's a problem.

 

Pyro on defence is powerful, similar to dwarf, but not unbalanced. It makes teamwork necessary to cap, which is how the game should be. Pyro in midfield is plain OP.

However, this isnt about what is OP and what isnt, as most classes in the game are broken as of now. This is a question of whether pyro should stay as is (maybe reworked), or should it become a non-instakill class with the same level of power.

 

But... if you and others in this thread claim its unbalanced due to its insta-kill... And I don't use the "unbalanced" feature of pyro... am I not basically using a balanced class? That's like being upset at all of one community just because most of the community is racist. What if someone's not racist? That's just being a dick.

 

wtf, didn't mean to double post

 

No, you are using an imbalanced class in a way that is least efficient, so you yourself are playing it a way that isn't imbalanced. He didn't understand your original point because it's frankly strange, I'm assuming he does now.

 

To be honest instakills are fun to play and fun to try to counter for me. If they can be balanced without removal I think it would be sweet.

 

Some classes should need instakills to be used for instance archer, getting instakills are nice but bow spam can be annoying and getting killed out of the blue over and over again can also be annoying. However if instakills were removed it would be unpopular or not even used at all unless it gets a huge damage output from its bow which would influence bow spamming or buff the sword which wouldn't make it an archer class anymore. This goes the same for assassin either you give it weak armor and a high damage output which would make it like a ninja but a lot less stealthy unless if you could make up a new function for it like (insert assassin class idea here).

That's practically all that I have to say about this this is mostly aimed towards archer though for those who don't agree with me Don't and don't make a fuss about it because I'll be too lazy to reply about your damn comment and even more lazy to start a flame war here.

Ghos

 

Well, instakill a certainty belong on archer. That's for sure. But I see that as a fun-lets-go-kill-people-class when you use the kill. Pyro, the purpose was to do massive damage to people leaving the flagroom to hold down a flag. This isn't speeding up the game; it's slowing the offense down.
Now, if pyros instakill is done away with, we have to keep it for assassin. Why? Assassin truly keeps an offense in check and returns flags for long enough to allow for a capture to happen, ending a stalemate.

@Nohox:
"respawn and move on"
That's really good. Agreed. New CTF slogan:
"Respawn and carry on"
-Sir_Inge 2015

 

Pyro instakills are ok in my opinion since:
1. they can be averted with water
2. the pyro's best thing to light people on fire (the bow) has limited ammo
3. Medics are a huge counter to them since they are immune to being lit on fire.
With pyro you need to use your resources wisely in order to get the best results. In many cases you have to play smart or else you will be runnung around defenseless.

The Archer's instakill needs to be nerfed. If you are good with a bow you can easily snipe everyone to oblivion.

Assassin instakills are ok since you can just block to avoid them.

 

You've been hating on instakills as long as I remember. It's really annoying when you say people only use them because they can't actually pvp. The whole reason I picked up assassin was when I was on ****ty apartment internet and really couldn't do anything anyway.

If you think using instakill classes don't require skill, then you should start using, see how well you survive.

 

Assassin really isn't that hard lol
Not at any point have I mained assassin, but I still have the most kills from it. Just from playing it for a few minutes in some games. It's not really hard :/

 

I have. I almost maned Pyro and Assassin at one point and I was pretty much unstoppable. Even now, just give me like an hour or two to play around with it and I can use anything just fine.

So what about your internet? My internet was subpar around 80-100 ping with >30fps when I started and that didn't mean I couldn't pick up something that isn't instakill. I don't give a damn about weather or not you can PvP or not, my problem with them is that they can easily beat someone who can without even having to outplay them. You don't really need to PvP with Medic and Soldier, but do I complain about how it's for people that can't PvP? No. It's because instakill users use their classes because they think they can't do anything, and it ends up that they can't so they want to protect them.

See? Even you said it yourself. As much as how stupid and immature it sounds, take the time and get good like other people did. Thanks for supporting my own argument.

To the people who think I want CTF to be KitPvP or something, that's not true. I do agree that PvP skill should be at least a slight necessity, but I think good movement, teamwork, and using your head is more important. Something that the instakill classes really don't require maybe barring Assassin. It's still a BS "lol you had no warning rip in pasatafa lolollol" in the end even then.