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Idea Admiral's Archer Rework

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by EmperorTrump45, Aug 4, 2015.

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What do you think of this Archer rework?

  1. It's worth considering

    13 vote(s)
    86.7%
  2. Undecided

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I don't think its a good idea

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
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  1. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Disclaimer: For those of you who are mind blown by the large amount of text in this post here's the whole idea in a nutshell-

    Remove Instant kills from Archer.

    Replace with 6 hearts true damage at 25+ blocks away along with 4 hearts true damage dot over the next 2 seconds after being shot (2 true damage per second) along with Slowness I for 1.5 seconds.

    Remove Punch II from the Bow.
    Give Archer a Speed I boost for 2.5 seconds after shooting someone at less than 25 blocks away.


    If you want to take the time to read it, here is the rest of the post:

    First off, Archer’s problem is two fold. The first problem, is that Archer is far too campy and too powerful in that role partially because of its ability to headshot anyone over thirty blocks away. The second issue is Archer’s Punch II bow, which can make the class difficult to counter at short range and allow it to actually knock back targets into instant kill range. Plus, Archer’s Punch II bow make it to where most free classes cannot effectively counter it but where VIP+ classes such as Mage, Pyro, and Ninja can and this is a major problem because it makes CTF something of a “pay to win” game mode.

    To further elaborate on the trouble with Archer and to look at a possible solution, I would like to take the following quote from @LordCh4os:

    “My own ideas centre around the punch enchantment. Now obviously archer is a class based on countering long range and being countered short range. Now the punch enchantment is powerful enough to fairly easily knock a player into the long range, making archers much harder to counter short range. Me, saixos, and matt spent a good deal of time working on an idea to fix this. The best way we came up with was exchanging the punch for a small speed boost for a few seconds. Now 2 benefits of this, would make archers even more counter able short range and encourage teamwork because of their vulnerability short. The other benefit of it would mean archers are more mobile, and less likely to camp, which would improve the bit about archer most hated. No speed would be gained from a headshot, only a short-range shot. This would mean that archers can't just headshot a guy behind a guy attacking them short range and then run away, they'd have to concentrate their fire short range. The only downside to this would be the whole speed boost changing the field of view. On the other hand good archers don't usually use the normal field of view anyhow so I guess they're used to it.”

    The following proposal of removing Punch II and replacing it with a small speed boost is a very good idea. The nice thing about it is that it would keep Archers from being able to knock anyone back into headshot range and would decrease camping a little bit. Archers are able to camp, in part, because of the Punch II on the bow, which allows Archer to knock back anyone from short range with little issue. Removing this mechanic and replacing it with a speed boost would undoubtedly decrease Archer’s power at short range and would force the class to be more mobile – hence the decrease in its tendency to camp out somewhere.

    Therefore, one main component of the Archer rework that I propose to you is to remove the Punch II on the bow and replace it with a speed boost of Speed I for 2.5 seconds.

    The second component of the Archer rework is removing the instant kills. Removing instant kills is essential to Archer’s rework for the same reason stated above, it would reduce Archer’s high tendency to camp and rack up huge kill streaks. However, it is also important to realize that Archer is by its very nature a long ranged class and must remain that way in order for the class to still be an Archer. Therefore, what I have struck out to achieve in this section of the Archer rework is to nerf its instant kills while still allowing Archer to be powerful at long range but not so powerful that it encourages camping too much.

    The idea I propose for this is to change Archer’s instant kills to something I like to call ‘critical shots’. Back in Medieval times, an arrow wound’s damage would often be due to the internal wounds it inflicted, or rather how much the wound bled out, or where it hit on a person’s body. However I am not encouraging a proposal for body shots, rather I am talking about adding a bleed effect to Archer’s arrows in CTF just like how they work in real life. Here’s how that would work:

    If a target is hit at 25+ blocks away they take 6 hearts of true damage immediately and 4 hearts more true damage over the next 2 seconds. The target also suffers Slowness I for 1.5 seconds after being shot.

    This second aspect is what some would call a nerfed instant kill and to a degree it is, but unlike current head shots ‘critical shots’ does not have a 100% chance of killing the target. Nevertheless, ‘critical shots’ give Archer’s head shots a fair nerf that still gives Archer a reasonable chance to get kills or at least to cripple enemies.

    One of the main things I have tried to achieve in an adequate rework of Archer is to massively improve how much it works with its teammates. I believe I have done so through ‘critical shots’.

    ‘Critical shots’ introduce an aspect of teamwork that is currently not present in CTF. They force Medic’s to be more active in order to save someone who got hit by a critical shot by giving them a chance to heal their wounded ally. Furthermore, ‘critical shots’ no longer allow Archers to ‘go it alone’ in getting kills. Instead they must work with their teammates – more often than not – to kill someone. For example, the Archer can cripple the enemy and then an allied Heavy or perhaps a Chemist could take them down. The slowness also introduces an aspect of teamwork into the class in the area of recovery. You might ask how this is so - and that is only reasonable to think since Archer as it is now assists greatly with recovery by being able to head shot flag carriers from long range and ‘critical shots’ cannot do that nearly as well.

    Regardless, the way ‘critcal shots’ encourage teamwork in regard to recovery is that it cripples the carrier making it easier for other allied players to take them down. Teamwork is all about working together, and critical shots encourages that as it does not allow Archer to operate as a ‘lone wolf’ class but forces it to at least work some with team mates in order to get kills or recoveries by crippling/killing enemies.

    One final idea that I propse for this Archer rework is to put a time limit on how long Archer can draw its bow. The credit for the posting of this idea goes entirely to @Miskey:

    “Elliot and mrjayelectro had mentioned a tweak along the lines of having a maximum time the bow could be pulled back. After that time it would reset and you'd have to redraw it. This encourages moving around and firing more wisely as opposed to standing still and firing at will.”

    The above proposals constitute the changes I propose to you in this Archer rework. The armour, sword, steaks, and arrows/number of arrows are unchanged.

    So, what do you think? :smile:

    Also: huge thanks to @LordCh4os for helping me a lot with this rework^_^

    @furtles
    @Hanatamago_San
    @pookeythekid

    -Admiral
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
    #1 EmperorTrump45, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  2. V1ve

    V1ve Member

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    I READ NONE OF THIS BUT I AGREE. OR THE ALTERNATIVE ROUTE IS THAT BRAWL SHUT DOWN CTF AND THEN ARCHER IS AUTOMATICALLY FIXED AND NO HARM IS DONE
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. MineBrick12

    MineBrick12 Active Member

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    The better solution to that is to give CTF to a more responsible server.
    As for the rework itself, it's good, but, I'm pretty sure that without a direct insta kill, engineers will grow even more annoying and OP, because they can just directly heal back with the cake. And when there is 6 engineers, like on Noob Day usually, this means that without head shots, there is almost zero hope of getting rid of the wall until the game ends.
     
  4. Miskey

    Miskey Leader of Annihilation | Former Media Manager

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    I like the idea of some d.o.t. effect applying to archers shots. If archer is changed to something like true damage, this would be a great way to compensate.
     
  5. This_Is_Chris_

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    Damn why couldn´t you just post your idea without making a 1000 word latter out of this. I think more people would be reading this if it wouldn´t be so long.
    I think your idea is very good, but maybe post it again in a shorter version.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    No, I make long posts to explain everything about the idea. Why? Because I like to do that sort of thing and its helpful.

    However, per your request I have added a disclaimer so that you don't have to read the wall of text to get to the suggested changes.

    I'm glad you like the rework though :smile:
     
    #6 EmperorTrump45, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  7. obikenobi21

    obikenobi21 Delta Force Jedi

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    Instead of making the speed boost when they shoot somebody, put it on an item. Make is short duration, short cooldown, so players can control when they want to go faster.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. furtles

    furtles Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a really neat idea, I like it. It removes Archer's brokeness without making it useless.
     
  9. Xelia_

    Xelia_ (ノ^ヮ^)ノ *:・゚✧

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    I'd rather keep instakills, but this is a way around it that could work if instakills are removed. However, speed boost is somewhat useless to archer.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    I think speed could be much more useful if Archer was able to use it selectively, like what @obikenobi21 suggested.
     
  11. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    D; I didn't get an alert when I was tagged on this! Or at least I'm pretty sure I didn't...

    Anyway, like the rework. I don't think anything's really wrong with it as it is in principle, except for the fact that, as in some comments above, engineers are now much more difficult to get rid of. If there ever is a CTF revolution that reworks almost all or indeed all of the classes, I'd like to see how engineer fares.

    Back on topic, though. Considering archer is a ranged class, speed does sound like one of the less desirable potion effects. In my opinion, something to encourage utilizing archer's melee ability should be added instead. Perhaps a full-charged bow shot within 25 blocks gives Strength I for 1.5 seconds or so. If this proves to be too much, then maybe knock down archer's sword to enchanted wood.

    I'd love to play your version of archer to see how it turns out. If I'd seen this three weeks ago, I would have felt like archer was being spat upon, but my opinions of headshots have changed in recent times.
     
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