The state of CTF.

"besides the three camping classes engie necro dwarf"

What? Yeah, let's just not talk about them and accept that 3/12 classes are ALWAYS banned in matches.. Christ, it's even it in the mandatory match rules..

"Mostly 2-3 classes are limited from usage in team matches"

This is just plain wrong. Let's look at the mandatory match rules, excluding Engi, Necro and Drawf, which are just plain banned, the rules explicitly state that 5 classes are restricted in some way... (assassin, pyro, mage, ninja
and medic)

So in total that's 8/12 classes that are being restricted, if not totally banned, in every match... And those are just from the mandatory rules... The ones you (mods) came up with. And you have the audacity to call a game that restricts, or totally bans, 8/12 of its classes for 'professional' matches "balanced"? humour me more.

 

I would like to point out here that the mandatory match rules also prevent archer bowspam, which is nevertheless a good thing, but we shouldn't be having to limit classes like this. That would bring the total up to 9 of the 12 classes being restricted/banned. The rules are there to the benefit of gameplay, but ctf should be in a state where these really shouldn't have to exist. We also shouldn't need to have to ban classes in a match full stop. CTF should be in a state where every class is playable in a match, not where 3 classes are outright banned. Brawl might not be able to fix CTF yet due to delays of various kinds, but it doesn't mean that the problem is an acceptable one. We simply should not need to have rules such as the ones banning or restricting classes because they can be abused in that way, and that tells you something about the state of the game right now

 

On it.

In the context of this thread, 'restricting' means limiting the amount of players that can access a class, such as 3 per game. Restricting a class doesn't mean banning certain class behaviour because it is deemed unsporting in a match. The mandatory match rules state three classes are banned from gameplay, so 3/12, or 1/4. The rest of the class restrictions are decided by the team reps, and, as I stated in my previous post, different teams have different opinions on which classes are too strong and should be limited in play. It's just something the teams agree on to make the game more fun for them. I can recall a few months ago, the restrictions were not as heavy as they are now and there were games that only banned the three aforementioned classes and perhaps restricted one additional class (4/12 = 1/3). Now there are games where limits are set to assassins (1), pyros (1), ninjas (2), chemists (1 cap per map), medics (2), occasionally archers (2), no premature pearling, no healing medics in combat etc etc, although those classes were not changed since then, it's just the way people play them and rate them that has changed.

And yes I call it balanced because we don't enforce any restrictions on matches, the teams agree on it themselves to make matches a more enjoyable experience.

Pretty sure archer and elf arrow spamming is not considered spamming as per the mandatory match rules, since it's their main weapon (not a side weapon such as eggs, webs etc) and a rarely effective in combat (most archer that spam their arrows are too bad at it and hinders their defense even more, plus it's only effective when done right on short range). Mage arrow spam means spamming the flag with mage spells, eliminating chances for ninjas to be sneaky and grab the flag.

If classes were redesigned so mages could not shoot a spell at the flag post, archers had a cooldown between arrows etc, it would break the game flow, overregulate the classes even more and make it difficult for casuals and new people to handle the class, just because in matches people found out that those were effective ways to block enemy assaults with the least effort possible. That's why they are deemed unsportly and taken out of matches, since this is a better way than hard coding such restrictions for everyone.

 

From the mandatory match rules thread:

Since it's no spam of any sort, then I'd imagine bowspam fall under spam. It's not effective combat, but there don't seem to be any exceptions posted on the thread (and if there is it probably should be posted). It's fair to say that if classes were redesigned in that way, then the rules need to be there for a reason. What I'm trying to get at are the rules which exist for a reason that could really be fixed. For example, I'm pretty sure there could be a way of reworking engineer dwarf and necro so that they could be used in matches without being ridiculous, and in that eventuality the rules regarding banning these three classes wouldn't need to exist. I'm not saying the classes need to be perfect, thats pretty much impossible to do anyway, but I'm pretty sure there's a way to make them at least usable in matches with the right rework, and the fact this hasn't been done yet proves CTF needs working on

 

People call the repeated usage of a feature spam. Such as archer arrow spam, soldier wallclimb spam, spam spam, everything that is repeated and annoys people tempts them to call it spam since spam is considered a negative word. I'll speak to the others regarding making the mandatory rules more clear, but if it's detailed too much people will complain it is too exact, while if it's left like now people will say it is not clear enough.

As for Engienecrodwarf, as I said, the plans are done, but it is up to nom and chap to allow these to be implemented. Trust me I'd like this to be finished rather sooner than later but sadly none of the other CTF mods are able or allowed to code. As said before I doubt engineer can be gotten out of the camping issue, since it wields a turret. Making engie more survivable in combat with a better pick and the fact that the turret has to be repaired was an attempt to force it more often onto the battlefield.

Have archers spam arrows over 2-3 blocks never gave archer an advantage as it almost never hit the target. I've never seen it in team matches as well. That is, pressing right click and releasing as soon as an arrow can be fired. Controlled shots with aiming at short range are not spam.

 

Much easier to hit a target with several pots as it's AoE damage than firing arrows randomly that need to hit directly and only fly 2-3 blocks if spammed.

 

Nah, firing an arrow without any power as it's done when spamming arrows flies two blocks.

 

Firing one arrow in one second that has to hit directly and only deals knockback and a little damage is as OP as potspamming with several potions per second that can effect multiple people at once and deal slowness, damage and poison?