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Idea Elf petition for 1 arrow wind element

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Lujiu, Jan 3, 2016.

?

Should Elf regain its 1 arrow flight requirement

  1. Yes

    15 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    16.7%
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  1. 1337Noooob

    1337Noooob Active Member

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    When I said that the Wind Element was unsatisfying, I misworded myself. It's not unsatisfying being able to escape so easily, but it's unsatisfying that as an Elf I have to use it so often. My rework ideas were designed to nerf the Wind Element while Buffing other aspects of Elf. This was to remove or reduce Elf's reliance on the Wind Element, making the class more satisfying. Having a strong escape utility is fine, but having to use it all the time is not.

    As for your comments on those other miscellaneous changes I suggested. I had a feeling they would be controversial.

    1. Forcing people to relearn aspects of a game is not a good reason to not change something. If CTF was to stay true to the mechanics of vanilla Minecraft, then Mage would not exist. Ninjas would not be able to go invisible. Medics wouldn't be able to heal teammates with their Sword. You could argue the only functioning classes would be Heavy, and even then, Steak won't work properly. Of course I'm taking things to a huge extreme, but I'm trying to paint an image here. CTF isn't just a Minecraft plugin. It's a game itself, and it's important to recognize it as such.

    Will people have to get used to moving a little faster while drawing a bow? Yes, but why does that matter? It's important for Elf to stay mobile while shooting, and if people can't learn how to aim a bow while moving faster, that's their problem. If moving faster is really such a chore, they can crouch, which makes you move at the normal bow draw speed AND hides your name tag. This is CTF, not Vanilla Minecraft.

    2. I can't really comment on how hard coding the feature in would be as my coding skills are very rudimentary and I haven't even touched Java or Minecraft before. But sometimes a small change is an important one. Maybe the implementation of arrow penetration is going to be difficult, but who knows? I have no idea what experience you have with coding plugins for Minecraft, so maybe you're speaking from legitimate experience, but those are just my thoughts.

    3. Insta Cast sounds cool. No arguments here.
     
  2. Lujiu

    Lujiu Active Member

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    1.) Has mages healing swords exsisted practicly forever in minecrafT? Has Ninjas invisibility? Mages spells? None of them. Now how long has bows / archery been apart of minecraft (For as long as iv played and I started in 1.1)

    People like myself have practiced on end with bows dating back to those times so by changing the way a bow behaves is like trying to make someone learn a new language (not to that extreme)

    Im just saying this will not be done ever for elf.

    2.) I have no coding experience besides redstone (and craftbook) but by what you are proposing you want the arrows configurations to basically be rewritten

    3.) See look we have found a compromise, You want elf to retain its mobility while casting arrows, I want elf to stay true to the bow in its main weapon (the pure element). Elf can cast earth and water elements easily and swiftly but when it comes to pure bowmanship it will be required for the pure and wind (when charging it) element.
     
  3. 1337Noooob

    1337Noooob Active Member

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    1. To answer your question about how long Archery's been in the game, I'd say the Bow itself was around near the beginning, near the Infdev period. I'm not 100% sure though because I didn't play back in 2010. However, I do clearly remember that Bows used to shoot rapid fire and only did 2 hearts of damage. It was only in late 2011 that bows were changed to the hold-to-charge feature. I'm pretty sure MCCTF was created in mid-late 2012, although I'm not sure. Bows only have about a year on some (not all, since Mage is pretty new) CTF mechanics.

    But that's all irrelevant. Your comments about Medic, Ninja, and Mage are actually supporting my point. These abilities are newer than 1.8 beta bows, and they force people to learn an entire different skill set just for CTF. But people get by. Mage has a mechanic that literally does not exist in any capacity anywhere else, yet people learn how to master it's abilities and hotkeys.

    All you're doing with Elf is changing movement speed. I've been using bows since they were literally machine guns. When Mojang updated bows to have to be charged, I was there. I've built up so much muscle memory for bows being a certain way over the years. And I'm fine with using one under awkward circumstances. You know the Horse Archer in Brawl's Kit PvP? I can play that kit perfectly fine despite riding a horse, unless I'm getting a lot of lag.

    You'd be surprised how adaptive the human brain is. Are people going to struggle with Elf for the first few days after the movement speed is changed? For sure! But give them a week, maybe 2. They'll get used to it.

    2. A ton of plugins are rewriting the configurations of items and mechanics. Steaks healing 4 hearts instead of hunger? That's a thing! Not being able to hurt teammates (back before teams and scoreboards were a thing in Minecraft)? It's existed since forever. Trust the coders that they're good at what they do. You'd be surprised. I bet there's a server out there with a plugin which does the very thing I'm suggesting. Since neither of us know how the code for Minecraft works, we should probably just both ignore this topic and ask someone more knowledgeable like Nom.

    3. The thing is I want to keep some of the Bow's core mechanics while also revamping it to give Elf mobility. I want Elf to still draw back their bow. I just want them to be more evasive while they're doing it. Walking speed isn't so crazily fast as you may think. It'll add to the concept of being a mobile Bowman. But I do agree that the Pure Element should be pulled back.
     
  4. Lujiu

    Lujiu Active Member

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    1. Im not saying that adjusting the bow mechanics means players wont get used to it necessarily but people are already so practiced on the bow drawback that it shouldn't / isn't needed to be changed

    I applaud you on your abilities to ride a horse and shoot a bow well, not many people can do that very successfully

    2. I respect coders deeply and I am very impressed with the things people can do in mine-craft and how little the base game has actually become compared to the user input.

    Im sure there is a server out there for it and I also think we should leave it to Nom

    3. You can make elf more mobile in different ways, not just having them move while they are shooting.

    How about speed 1?

    Or punch on the bows?

    Each effect placement on the battlefield but in different ways. So of all the options I dont think yours is the best option (neither speed 1 or punch on the bows actually)

    Our whole conversation seems to have drifted from what we originally were talking about

    Do you still believe that the nerf is fair? You keep complaining about elf's mobility and they nerfed it pretty hard.
     
  5. 1337Noooob

    1337Noooob Active Member

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    About Mobility. I think Elf's Mobility is too focused on escaping. All Elf can do with their Mobility is fly away. I don't think that really constitutes to a mobile Archer. The idea of Elf is that they're supposed to jump in with their bow, comboing enemies and being evasive even while shooting. The Wind Element doesn't provide that. It lets you do getaways and that's about it.

    Look at Ninja. It's got 4 different ways to avoid enemies. Natural Speed 2 lets them slip by enemies. Ender Pearls let it just teleport past. Eggs blind enemies, and Redstone hides you. Each one is a method of evasion, but each one serves a different purpose. Ender Pearls are primarily for escaping quickly and catching up to enemies. Eggs are mostly for making it hard for your opponent to counter attack. Redstone is used to get close to enemies of get away. Speed 2 is overall good for striking first and being hard to hit.

    Now Elf has one method of Mobility, and that Mobility serves one purpose. If Elf is made mobile in other ways, it can be more flexible and less reliant on a single ability.

    So I'm with the devs for nerfing Wind Element. It gives people a chance to properly punish an Elf for poor positioning. But I would like Elf's other abilities to be buffed so it's easier for an End to not get into poor positions in the first place.
     
  6. Lujiu

    Lujiu Active Member

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    You dont have to use the elf wind element for escaping, many people use it for traveling across the map which is the reason it was nerfed in the first place was because elf's could get away easily with the flag.

    A cool evasion trick I use when I still want to combate the player is have them chase me Jump into the air once and hit back in the direction they were running at me (go over their head) and start shooting at them again. Theres many different ways to use wind element in the battle field and they made it nearly impossible for it to work.
     
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