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The War on Bullsh*t Presents: Ninja

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by EmperorTrump45, Jan 28, 2016.

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Should Ninja's Mobility be Reworked/Nerfed?

  1. YES!!

    9 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Of course

    4 vote(s)
    8.5%
  3. No (no means yes)

    16 vote(s)
    34.0%
  4. Hello this is Lord_Ch4os and I approve this message

    18 vote(s)
    38.3%
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  1. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    TL;DR: Ninja is currently far too mobile as a class and it needs some kind of tweak/rework/nerf on its pearls. Why? Because Ninja's ender pearls are, as an ability, inherently unfair and far too strong. This is not to say that Ninja should not be buffed in other areas to compensate.

    Have you ever seen things in life that just make no sense whatsoever? I have. Every time I open Eclipse for yet another attempt at the computer science lab I was supposed to turn in five days ago. I take one look at the code and it is the finest bullsh*t I have EVER seen. Just LOOK at that bullsh*t man! Apparently it's called JAVA.

    When I have an error the console literally sends me messages like "could not locate the instance of ^&!@%$!# in the object" and I have no idea what on earth that means. Then I ask a dude I know who knows a lot of bullsh*t and he takes one look at it and he's like "oh that makes perfect sense. You need a semi-colon there!"

    The point I am illustrating here ladies, gentlemen, and for the sake of being gender neutral, menwomen, is that Java is a lot like Ninja. They can both be exceptionally powerful when used correctly and are also incredibly stupid. And I know someone's probably gonna go all Jimmy Neutron on this thread and say "oh um excuse me sir but uh Java is soooo easy u fukin nublord" but honestly, it's not for someone like me, whose reaction every time I open the console is

    [​IMG]

    CTF Ninja is the same way.

    Let's take a little gander at the class. That's right I said gander. Don't judge me, it's a great word. Anyway most of you know Ninja is extremely squishy and usually has a difficult time fighting anyone half decent at PvP or who has decent armor. But the one thing Ninja has that is extremely good and extremely stupid is it's ender pearl.

    Personally, I like to call it the trippy blue orb of bullsh*t.

    Why you may ask?

    Well for starters you can mysteriously bend space and time, break physics, blow fire out of your ass, and somehow end up 100 blocks away from where you started by throwing a pearl. If I did that every time I threw every one of Aunt Martha's pearls I can tell you I would have set some kind of Guinness World Record by now and that's saying something!

    And that's not even the whole story! Flagrooms have to be intricately designed on maps so that Ninja capping won't be too ridiculously, stupidly overpowered so that randoms won't take to the forums and be the newsfeed of every staff member for the entire day. Just one block out of place on some flag-room and believe me there's one helluva sh*tstorm a brewin'.

    But that's not actually the fault of map makers, or the map itself, unless its some ungodly thing that should never see the light of day even in Chucky F*ckin Cheese's like Unholy Faith... Otherwise it tends to be the fact that Ninja's ender pearl can teleport it halfway across the map, on most maps, in barely 2 seconds. No I didn't say halfway across part of the map. That's halfway cross the ENTIRE map faster than you can say Quidditch!

    Look I'm not advocating for balance here, or for removing Ninja's pearls or even for putting big limits on its mobility but really? Necro is sitting there in a colossal heap of uselessness and we have Ninja's just teleporting across maps? Really? Doesn't that sound like an ability that is inherently OP to you?

    Imagine if you had a child, like a really young child. His name is Jimmy. Now Jimmy likes to poop. Like all young children he is obsessed, with poop. Now suppose Jimmy sh*t in 2 places on the floor. Why? Because Jimmy is a dick.

    But, supposing you were a good parent or were not also obsessed with poop, you probably wouldn't be very happy with that. And that, ladies, gentlemen, and menwomen is the situation we are faced with here. We have two piles of sh*t and no one has cleaned them up.

    But wait, we must give some credence to our moderators and staff members who are tirelessly slaving away on this meaningless little game-mode. Yeah that's right you little twats (you know who you are) who always all like "oh the coders don't do shat dmote nom pl0x" the coders are shining beacons of efficiency and justice. Why they just released a new update for Ninja! Oooh! I can just feel a the strings of my heart a hummin' already!

    Let's see what they did:

    Lol did the coders really Ninja Ninja's update by not actually explicitly letting people know that Ninja got updated?



    Wait, what a second. What's going on here? What did you say to me @Sibs?

    WHAT THE F^&^&@!%#@$??

    Ninja's sword was nerfed? Who the hell cares about Ninja's sword? Ninja's sword is like those Barbie action figures your grandparents got you even though you're a boy. I mean what kind of action are those things supposed to be seeing anyway? Don't ask, don't tell dude, that's my motto.

    But seriously, the sword? THE SWORD? Yep, let's solve the problems that weren't really problems while ignoring the real problems like the fact that Ninja can break every law of physics and can Ninja its own updates! Way to be like the legislature Brawl!

    Okay, look I know the coders have work to do. I know they have important things to do. But is it right for Ninjas to just run around the maps like they're olympic sprinters and basically everyone else is that dude who's had a few too many cheeseburgers?

    GG everyone

    *Admiral has left the game*

    @BAWSS5
    @Shawn_
     
    • Winner x 3
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    #1 EmperorTrump45, Jan 28, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  2. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    FIRST

    my "later response" isn't in this post as originally planned
     
    #2 pookeythekid, Jan 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  3. GreenNature

    GreenNature Nature is Creative

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    In case TL;DR
    He complains java code hard. He says enderpearls are stupid and over powered because they have too much mobility.
    He complains that coders made Ninja overpowered.
     
    • Like Like x 2
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    #3 GreenNature, Jan 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  4. Proterozoic

    Proterozoic Wiki Team is a Semi-Staff Rank

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    this is legendary
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Wrong. 'He' if we're going to refer to me in the third person, complained that Ninja's enderpearls are far too strong and is something that the coders should fix instead of nattering about how the sword is too OP.

    But hey, you know what makes Ninja offense such a nuisance? Its ridiculous mobility as the sword is merely an accessory to its power.

    Second of all, this thread is not a troll. This was my attempt at a humorous en-devour (as you may have noticed by the frequent jokes) to point out how ludicrous it is that a smaller problem like Ninja's sword can get fixed but the main problem with Ninja, the enderpearls, don't even get tweaked. Sorry to see that you didn't appreciate it =/
     
    #5 EmperorTrump45, Jan 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  6. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

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    TBH and IMO a ninja is weak enough that the pickup delay is an easy kill for something not using a turret manual override or a Necro sword.

    Also, don't EVER use a Star Wars title without sticking to the theme with the post. That's taboo.
     
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  7. Bill_D

    Bill_D Active Member

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    I'm going to have to disagree. I agree that the concept of the pearls, and how they allow instant teleportation and the way a ninja can bypass most enemies at the moment without a fight is overpowered.

    However, in saying that, I also believe that pearls have a place in ctf, and shouldn't be removed from ninja. In fact, I only really see the blatant overpoweredness (for lack of a better word) when a ninja is capping. For obvious reasons, ninjas cannot use their other trademark ability, of invisibility, when they have the flag. If they could, this would make recovery practically impossible. The same seems to be argued with pearls, and how ninjas are so difficult to catch once out. Whilst I also disagree with this, I'm going to ignore that for now. So the tweak for ninja invis to ensure it couldn't easily cap by going invis was to replace the redstone with glow stone, preventing invis capping.

    I think that something similar could be implemented for when ninjas have a flag. Perhaps an alternative to removing pearls might be to add increased damage to ninjas when they pearl provided they have the flag. So rather than the conventional two hearts, a ninja might take four or five hearts per pearl.

    One reason I am opposed to removing pearls from ninja is because, well, "they are cool". They are also important to recovery, which is what ninja does best. It is an essential recovery class, and the pearls are an essential recovery weapon. They ensure that no one (asides maybe soldier) is beyond reach of ninja, which (in my opinion) is important to ninja as a recovery class.

    I am also not silly, in that I'm open to a rework. If- and this is a big if-, the mods come up with a rework that may remove the OPness of ninja capping, but keeps the mobile ninja as a nimble and sneaky class that is inviting to players, then I'll reconsider. I simply do not see the need of the removal of pearls, just something to limit them when a ninja has the flag.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    capping power completely nerfed by total lack of tankiness usually not even enough to pearl across the map if you get hit even once within the enemies' flagroom which is likely to happen due to longer steal times.

    anything else? oh yeah i learned this morning your name is thomas
     
  9. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    I play Ninja so I know that. However, I'n not suggesting reworking/nerfing Ninja's capping power without subsequent buffs in other areas.

    Nope and I'm not sure what you're talking about.
     
  10. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    what is your name then? also, what you wanna buff it to? sharp8 sword? :^)
     
  11. Winneon

    Winneon Member

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    Aight, I read this head to toe, and unlike your Necro post, I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Ninja is highly
    mobile because that's the general point of that class. Speed and stealth. When, in all of history, has the concept of a ninja not been associated with mobility? They have no armor, they take 2 hearts per ender pearl, and their regeneration takes forever. I'm not even mentioning how fast their redstone runs out, even when they're sneaking. They got, what, 30 seconds tops? And that's if they haven't already wasted some of their redstone in the first place.

    I see this kind of thing mentioned all the time: "Ninja-ghosting is abuse of the class". Well, of course it is. The problem is, it's easily fixable, and it has nothing to do with its mobility. Awhile ago, there actually was something done to help stop ninja-ghosting, and that was the act of giving Ninjas a slight delay on stealing the flag. Still, since ninja-ghosting is still very much alive and prominent, that change wasn't enough. Here's something that would prevent ninja-ghosting without changing Ninja's mobility whatsoever: Prevent Ninjas from enderpearling 1 block away from the flag on the other team. Now, you might be thinking: they can just enderpearl a way's away, run in, grab it, and teleport instantly, eh? Well, to prevent that one, you could not allow Ninjas on the other team to grab the flag at all when they have an enderpearl in flight. I really don't think there's anything else I'm missing here, and if there is, please let me know.

    Ninjas are easy to deal with most of the time (emphasis on the most) when it comes to PvP, which is why they're generally used for their mobility. A ninja without mobility isn't a ninja. Period. It's like taking a bow away from an Archer. If a player is using Ninja as a FFA PvP class, they can't really last that long without long breaks for regeneration or killing themselves and teleporting back to where they were before, and that latter part tends to take too long on most maps.

    Ninja is a perfectly balanced class when it comes to its mobility. Maybe its Sharpness can be nerfed a wee bit. Maybe they can be given less redstone. But for god's sake, taking away mobility from a Ninja of all things is asking for players to start whining about Ninja being the new Necro.
     
    #11 Winneon, Jan 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  12. November

    November november

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    does everyone who wants to nerf ninja forget that you lose health when you enderpearl? .-. to get across a map quickly you probs have to use 3-4 pearls. if you plan on recovering off a soldier/chemist/heavy/medic etc with only 2-4 hearts you are going to have a really hard time.
     
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  13. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Does anyone who disagrees not read anything in my posts?

    I agree with you Matt. But if you had read the thread you would have noticed that at the very top of my post it clearly states that Ninja's mobility (pearls) should not be nerfed/reworked without some sort of buff in other areas. I do not think that is unreasonable.

    Also, when did I imply that only Ninja should receive some kind of rework on its more obscenely powerful abilities?

    I agree with that. I am saying "let's change Ninja's mobility" not "let's ruin Ninja's mobility" or enderpearls if you prefer. Why? Partially because of the problem you just listed.

    That is precisely my point. Ninja is WAY too dependent on one really good ability.

    Okay two things here:

    1) Ninja's mobility is not balanced unless you consider being able to enderpearl halfway or most of the way across maps as perfectly balanced. Or unless you consider being able to constantly teleport (basically) into the flag-room every few seconds as balanced. And yes I get that Ninja loses some health when teleporting but that is beside the point that the class is simply too mobile.
    2) I am not advocating for total balance.
    3) I am also not advocating for removing Ninja's pearls or severely weakining its mobility. I am saying "tweak or rework or slightly nerf the mobility but buff something else in the process". Why?

    That does a much better job of explaining why Ninja's pearls should be changed and also why the class should be buffed in another area to compensate for it.
     
    #13 EmperorTrump45, Jan 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  14. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    if you only want your idea to make sense in combination with other ideas, how about presenting those alongside or we wont be able to judge this idea alongside the others
     
  15. CommunistBelgian

    CommunistBelgian Well-Known Member

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    Just reset the updates and get back to what ctf really was: good. Pyro may have been overpowered but it was part of capturing that d*mn flag. Being an outstanding soldier was a challenge and now it's only become easier to do it.
    As I stated before, a leavewave is inbound.
     
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  16. November

    November november

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    I did read your post. I was trying to make the point (rather implicitly, I know) that I don't think ninja needs to be changed because its mobility is not really that op. sure, you can get across the map in a few seconds but, as I said, that does come with the cost of losing a lot of health and, when ninja is generally used to recover, that makes it a lot harder for ninja to do its role, and so makes it not op.
     
  17. ReubenS

    ReubenS Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes let's have: Pyros with no bow pullback, medics who insta-heal everything with one click, assassins you cannot block, chemists with no potion cooldown, ghost capping 4141 ninjas, engineer cake that restores all items,, the old necro, chemists with Speed/Str II, engineers that can place turrets anywhere, 2-way teleporters, assassins with 2 redstone and don't forget all the maps that had one entrance/exit

    GOOD TIMES.
     
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  18. CommunistBelgian

    CommunistBelgian Well-Known Member

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    Rip in McPvP's latest big update...
    What I meant was the Brawl update but okie xd
     
  19. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    how bout just mcpvp times? nerfed pyro, nerfed assassin, nerfed engi, nerfed chemist - just ban necro and engi imo - and good maps actually as opposed to woodland, parklife, subzero or other stuff we had to deal with for months. ik they arent in rotation but bad maps still are and you get my point.
     
  20. ReubenS

    ReubenS Well-Known Member

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    Yea but that had little to do with the merge. Brawl didn't choose the maps, the CTF staff did
     
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