Ninja capping: an apologia

Ayy

A wonderful description of me

 

Ofc you make it an apologia.

 

u r cheap I am sorry for your loss! C:

 

LOL, you got that idea from earlier today when valour was doing it xD

 

You forgot instacaps, but atm you need bugs to pull this off.

 

*coughs* ... archer .... *coughs*

 

So, basically you are defending the #1 cheapest thing in the point of the gamemode. None argue assassin/archer here, they arent capping the flag mostly. Ninja capping is so damn easy i could and have done it multiple times. Only times i dont win is if the lucky ninja recoverers do it, or someone stole the flag as well.

Dwarf is used more now because of said ghost/prem capping, and even then they dnt 100% take care of the problem.

I love how you explain all the problems of the ninja cappers because thats kinda the point, ninja cappers wanna be cheap, fine by defense, we will be cheap as well.

 

the difference is I'm proud of it ^.^

 

I agree with all yur definitions on ninja capping.

2)
Okay, so for your first point that a class hitting you away from the flag causes you to die, well, that's pretty much the same with any class. I mean, yes ninja isn't tanky at all, but that's a harship faced by all cappers. Now, if you means someone hitting you as you pearl, that really doesn't do crap a lot of the time, and usually leads to the flag carrier suiciding next to their base and picking it up.

To the second point, it's true that you can catch up to a ninja capper as ninja. However, that's extremely situational. For one, you need to pearl almost as soon as they steal. If you were in the flagroom and they ghost out, it's extremely hard to catch up. If the prema, you can pearl after them, but more often than not they end out far ahead. For your point about the pearls, it's not like a ninja capper is forced to stand still. With eggs+speed 2, it's pretty simple to spam and back up, and then you tp away.

And yes, 1 person randomly getting you can f0k you up, that is one of the drawbacks of ninja capping, +yur armor.

3)
Saying that defense doesn't play fair doesn't in anyway make ninja capping less cheap of legitimate. Defensive players could say they play that way because of ninja cappers. It should be hard to get out vs a large quantity of defensive players. If a capper tries to 10 v 1 a defense, live, get out and cap, the defense better be really bad, because that shouldn't happen. CTF is a team game, not a game where defense scrambles to counter 1 player. Ninja capping is considered cheap because by the time you notice, they're out of the flagroom. And in addition, if ninja capping is a consequence of a crowded flagroom, then flagrooms with little defense are skrewed against ninja capping. Not all flagrooms are impossible to get in and out of.

4)
While yes, timing is essential, that's just how ninja works. I agree that ghosting or even premaing can be hard, but it isn't impossible. So many people can pull it off, it becomes a pretty major problem. This is the same logic that leads people to argue archer is balanced because of the timing needed to pull of it's headshots.

Yeah, a route is necessary, but c'mon, is this really that hard? Just go the fastest way to your flagroom. This isn't a huge mental challenge, and certainly not that difficult. And for that thing about sponge-glitching, that just makes it impossible to recover. It may be faster to pearl straight at your flag, but it's definetly safer. I'll take your example, skyworlds. If you don't use the sponge trick, you end up on the ground at 2 locations: mid, and your flag. At that point, it's super easy to kill you. If you use the sponge trick, you end up vulnerable only once: On top of your flag building. From there, you pearl to your flag and cap. It's like a 1 second window to kill you.

It's true, you do need to deal with recov ninjas. However, in the general context of ninja capping, you outrun them a lot. Either that, or you get some support (medic, engie), and run around and pass it off. Pretty hard to deal with.

Who da faq holds the flag as ninja. If they do, they have some OP support (helo engie) that makes it a pain to recover. In addition, they could just switch classes and make it even more of a pain.

Conclusion)
People who use engie are also using a mechanic known in the game, same for dwarf. Also, wat da faq do you mean if its gamebreaking why is it not disallowed. There is like nothing that a class can do that is not allowed in regular CTF, aside from block glitching and all that stuff. However, ninja capping is frequently restricted or banned in team matches, so it is restricted, and quite frequently.

And I can deal with it. Sometimes. The thing about ninja capping is that they can just try over, and over, and over again, and eventually, they will get that one lucky opportunity...and cap before the defense can react. It's not like taking advantage of a distraction to get out of the flagroom is something I'm opposed to, it's that ninjas are too fast when crossing the map that once they get out, rip.

There are no quicker ways to deal with ninja that have gotten out besides just invis camping their flagroom, just sayin'.

 

So what if ive dropped 105? that doenst mean ive ghost capped 125 times -.-. I unlike every other ninja try to legit ninja cap, not prem or ghost. Btw, i would fix what you said, ive dropped 105 out of 125 yet i have 29 ninja caps? you sir have screwed up

 

Stolen flags do not count flags picked up off the ground, but if you pick a flag up off the ground and drop it, the dropped flag counts towards your dropped flag total. It is totally feasible for you to drop 105 flags, steal 125, and capture 29.

 

Are people seriously talking about stats at this point to try and justify an opinion? By this point I thought it was widespread knowledge that stats don't matter. It simply keeps a record of what has happened, not the circumstances behind it. A person could die 50 times in a game, but if he was derping around with friends whilst other people targeted him as a sitting duck, that makes his true ability at the class completely irrelevant. I'm not going to try justify either side of this argument as I'm sure I'll be berated for not being a ninja and throwing in my 2 cents, but nevertheless:

If someone has 2 days gametime and has only that many caps in that time, it means they're not spending all their time trying to steal flags, not that they fail at capping. Capping is not the only thing a ninja does, as it can be used in many roles: recovery, killing specific targets, core defense, or offense. All of this would mean that they haven't spent as much time on actually capping. That's not including the fact that on his stats page he's actually played other classes, and the time he has amassed playing ninja accounts of about 22 hours, not 2 days, which may or may not change the view on his ability. Thirdly, he could not be trying very hard and just wants to derp around for the fun of it. If that's the case, of course he's not going to be stealing or successfully capping as much, it's only natural to assume that. I'm not saying that the opinions here are wrong, I'm just saying for all of these reasons you can't justify something based on someone's stats.
@TheSkullOfNight I think what plautius really means is that your "easy" ninja caps aren't backed up by what your stats seem to suggest. I'd suggest if you're going to make a post saying ninja caps are easy, you actually provide some evidence to back that up, or your argument will be torn down very quickly.

Oh and are we also seriously arguing about exactly how many flags someone has capped? I thought the point of this thread was to argue about ninja capping and justifying how it is fair and how it isn't, not to berate someone about their stats.

So the other thing I'd like to point out is the fact that what is "fair" is very subjective in this instance. In this case @TheSkullOfNight thinks that certain methods of ninja cap are cheap, whereas @Plautius doesn't. Again, I'm not going to delve into the issue myself as I'd be told to shut up since I never play ninja (or have shoddy ninja stats given the way this thread is going). However what i will say is "fair play" is all subjective anyway. We have certain rules in team games which are thought by the majority to be cheap and unfair. That doesn't mean that everyone agrees with that. I've spoken to a couple people (who I won't name because I don't want them getting involved in this debate) who want the rules to be changed, specifically class bans. Now I heavily disagree with them on the issue, but it does prove the point that they don't think it's fair those classes are banned. The same thing applies here, you both have conflicting views about what is fair and what isn't. There are rules that can exist in team matches which stop ninjas ghosting, and so in those circumstances that is called unfair, but in other matches those aren't in place and it's all good. The definition of what is "cheap" and what isn't is highly subjective. it's even biased by what classes you main (it's pretty obvious an archer will want a ninja to be less powerful, and a ninja will want to justify it's abilities, as @Plautius is trying to point out) All I'm saying is it can be difficult to justify your point of view on what is and isn't fair, when there are few rules governing that in team matches, and absolutely none in regular gameplay. Going purely by what ctf allows in regular games, absolutely nothing is unfair, because as long as the class allows that to happen, there aren't any real rules to stop you.
In short:

This is a response, you're arguing this not with a fact but with personal opinion. Even with your justification (and what you wrote is well written), it still doesn't mean people don't have the right to think the cheap ninja caps are worse than dwarf, even if you don't agree with them.

Yeah, gonna agree with @Plautius on this bit, I wouldn't base your arguments solely on random ninjas in the flag room, as they aren't gonna be as effective. Look at some of the proper ninja recoverers and I think you'll probably change your mind about being easily able to get away, they are very good at their job.

What I do know, is with the recent changes to certain classes, offense has definitely become a lot stronger than it once was, and so playing as a ninja is more beneficial. Whether that could be considered to an unfair level, or correcting what was wrong is another scope for debate entirely

 

At this point ghost and prema capping has been part of the game for so long if it was ever removed/nerfed many players will be very mad and likely leave CTF. Also, ninja is one of the most common classes bought in CTF, and if it was nerfed CTF wouldn't make as much money off of it.

 

my argument in that case would be he might choose not to cap not because he can't, but because he doesn't find that fun. Many people play the game for other stats, not just caps.
I would also argue that the reason they were nerfed in the first place was that it was too easy to play with those abilities, and fixing these abilities means they're at a reasonable level. To a certain degree capping has to be hard anyway. 3 caps and u win! (normal circumstances clearly)