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Flawed Map System

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Snowleak14, Apr 5, 2016.

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  1. Snowleak14

    Snowleak14 Well-Known Member

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    Recently map wave XI for CTF has been released. So far the reactions on the maps haven't been all that great. People have been pointing out flaws, especially issues with the gameplay. The new maps tend to have good aesthetics but they often fall short in the gameplay department. The maps often are confusing and might disorientate you. Finding flagrooms or the fastest way to the enemy flag isn't as easy on for example a map like blackout of skyworlds. The flagrooms are another offender. After there had been complaints about the small flagrooms it seems like the mapmakers and committee might have overshot themselves and now we are left with really big and open flagrooms which instead a good thing either. I could think of some more arguments but in my opinion the maps are good if we just look at the aesthetics but they are lacking or are just simply bad on the gameplay aspect. But before we come to the point I want to look back at our last map wave.

    In our last map wave 7 remakes got added and 7 completely new maps got added. This map wave was also not that well received. Now we are almost 8 months further. Of the remakes that got added in that wave 3 of the 7 are already removed again. This doesn’t seem that bad, but if we look at the new maps we see where the real issue is. Out of the 7 maps that got added 5 maps have been removed now that the next wave is out. And even worse 4 of those 5 maps had been removed long before map wave XI was released. Those maps also looked fairly good (debatable), but gameplay wise weren’t good enough.
    Looking at this it seems that there might be an issue with how the maps are chosen or which maps are picked. Currently the maps that get added to the rotation are decided by the committee. All committee members get to vote on the maps. Now I do not know exactly who are in the committee but if I am not wrong it has 6 people in it. 6 people to represent all of the CTF community. I think the way in how the maps are picked should be changed around. Currently the new maps that are picked do most of the time not live up to the expectations and get removed fairly soon. And with the reactions on the maps so far it looks like this wave will suffer the same fate as wave X.

    I suggest that either instead of waves maps get released more often so we first of all don’t have to wait 8 months between waves and secondly more maps get a chance to atleast be tested. This idea has also been suggested by former CTF moderator @Pavocado . Or else if this idea is not applicable, chance the way how waves works. Why not add like 3 times the maps you eventually want to add in rotation for a week. And with a voting system either on the forums or in game you decide which maps gets to stay. This prevents that maps which are absolutely are terrible for gameplay get added and helps maps getting tested before they get added. Maybe both those ideas aren’t a good solution either but it really looks like the way maps are getting added now isn’t working and should be changed, whether it be big or small changes.

    TL DR – The way in which maps are getting picked is flawed and should change. Just read the post.
     
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  2. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely, completely agree. My suggestion would be to make it a requirement for map makers to listen to feedback before a map wave gets released, the feedback scheduling could take place among the commitee and then forwarded by the representatives in their respective team chats.

    This provides for many regulars to be able to give their feedback, of course though, moderators need to be in place to keep things under control.
    Map makers wouldn't even have to be forced to implement anything, but this would provide for them to get a lot of opinions they can think about^^
     
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  3. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    The gameplay might be sh*tty but the maps are really pretty!

    (yes I am an ungrateful swine)
     
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  4. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    Yay, you made the thread. Now we gotta hope the mods actually take this into consideration .-.
     
  5. Quarrelt

    Quarrelt Genetic co-leader | team!

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    Last wave I attempted pushing a new system that involved lived testing and some other aspects. Unfortunately, we didn't begin with that plan so it wasn't very structured and we ended up falling back to the old voting system. However, I agree it needs a change and I've personally been trying to think of a new plan for a couple of waves now - but I just haven't had the time to get it set up or talked through etc...

    The new wave just came out so we're focusing on that for now but, speaking for myself, I would like to see something new for the next wave. I've already mentioned the idea to the mods earlier to hopefully get us talking, so we'll see where it goes. If we do change things up, we'll probably letcha know pretty soon.
     
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  6. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    inb4 Roke;
    "The current map voting system is working perfectly fine, therefore this is an unnecessary thread"

    Locked
     
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  7. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see sort of a pyramid system implemented. Like this:
    Every map submitted starts at the bottom, every one of those should have a poll saying yes and no. The map should be open for viewing and have some pictures. Based of votes the map can either be told what needs improving by a mod, or get onto the next round.

    The next round is where mods decide, the committee of mods looks at it and they decided if they want to push it on after that.

    The test round, only 1/5 maps should get here, this is where the map is put in the rotation for a week or few days, the map title would be in-game [Testing] (name)
    There would be a forum vote for this and In-Game one, if there are lots of votes it will be put in the next wave.

    Pyramid because it narrow it down.
     
  8. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    Would you want all map reworks for wave xi to be released this weekend all at once, or shall we stick to the plan of releasing one per weekend?
     
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  9. Snowleak14

    Snowleak14 Well-Known Member

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    I don't really know what is the best. Just one person over here. But I think they should atleast be tested before they get placed permanly into rotation.
     
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  10. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    I dunno about others, but personally, all at once ish better :3
     
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  11. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    All at once, the reworks are very nice, or look nicer imo
     
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  12. obikenobi21

    obikenobi21 Delta Force Jedi

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    What happened to the testing of maps in laike, a one day event thing? That was kind of nice for players to get a feel of the map and then form opinions of it.
     
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  13. Pavocado

    Pavocado Well-Known Member

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    I've always thought the system of add and remove maps whenever necessary was a good idea. It's what a few other gamemodes, sabotage for example, did back in the age of MCPVP, where a new map was discovered on the forums, people said they liked it and then it was added. If a map wasn't doing too good after a certain amount of time, then it was pulled.

    It was a lot easier for a gamemode like sabotage, which doesn't have the complex class mechanics that ctf does, but a similar system for CTF could still easily exist. I know that it was talked about multiple times back when I was a moderator, but I don't recall what became of it.

    A stream, if you were, rather than a wave.
     
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  14. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Minimum Brain Size

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    Eh... not sure. Wave XI definitely created some serious hype, for me at least, and I think releasing them one at a time would detract from that.

    Also, if you're not happy with the maps, why not make them yourself? Many veteran mapmakers have left CTF and it's important that we don't just let mapmaking die out, especially since Build makes it so easy to do so.
     
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  15. ACE_BLUE2

    ACE_BLUE2 Sup'

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    I would give my opinion on the maps, but I haven't played one yet. I was on last night for almost two hours and only saw blackout, skyworlds, and dragon valley (is that what it's called?). Luck of the draw I guess?
     
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  16. Netflikx

    Netflikx Well-Known Member

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    Yea the rotation of maps definitely needs to be improved on this side note. For some reason I'm always playing maps like Slate, River Crossing, and Whiteout, but I rarely ever find games with Blackout, Pavo's Academy, and Lighthouse. This is really just personal experience but it's a pattern that I've really started to notice lately.
     
  17. RaZeragon

    RaZeragon TC Co-Leader | Catgirl Enthusiast

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    In my opinion, I feel that CTF Maps are now often forced to be so balanced, that it takes some of the fun away. Personally, I find maps like Blackout and Skyworlds to have some of the fastest, most enjoyable, and dynamic gameplay. I'm 100% positive Blackout would not have been accepted into Wave XI if it was up to be a new map, yet it has stuck around for quite a while, and is a common favorite amongst players. The new maps are so balanced and so complex that it takes away from the gameplay, and the unbalance found in other maps makes them more enjoyable.
     
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  18. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    But Pavo you know how lazy we are..

    100% random. I keep getting Lighthouse etc.
     
  19. ACE_BLUE2

    ACE_BLUE2 Sup'

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    The first person I've heard wanting unbalanced gameplay, and I couldn't agree more.
     
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  20. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    Pseudorandom
     
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