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Thoughts on Ninja

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Plautius, Apr 9, 2016.

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  1. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    Hi!

    Y'all know I'm a ninja main, I guess. Def, midfield, recov, capping, whatever... although I still haven't learned to ghost^^

    I consider myself one of the better ninja players out there (although by far not the best), but over time I have noticed ninja is pretty weak.

    As a capper (I also go soldier, heavy, or medic to cap) one (average) ninja does not pose a serious threat to you. If you're fighting a ninja and know how to PvP (even moreso as a chemist due to speed 1) a bit, you almost always will end up killing the ninja unless he's either very lucky and gets a huge combo or he's got a BK ping (jks ily all).

    Same for archers: do you know how to hit players? That ninja is bound to take more than one try against you.
    I don't even have to get started on engineers (turret), dwarves (armor+sword) or necro (armor).

    I'll sum it up in a list, how 1v1s end assuming both players have average pvp skill:

    Heavy - heavy wins by far
    Soldier - soldier wins a few steak down
    Medic - medic wins a few steak down
    Archer - archer wins pretty damaged
    Assassin - unclear
    Ninja - unclear
    Pyro - pyro wins pretty damaged
    Dwarf - dwarf wins by far
    Engineer - engineer wins by far
    Necro - necro wins by far
    Mage - unclear
    Chemist - chemist wins by far
    So what is ninja good for? Ninja has a few roles right now: damage dealer on defense (only works in combination with other classes), capper on offense (oh my god so cheap how dare you), escort on offense (invis running involved) and recovery. In any case, ninja needs to constantly respawn either to remain invisible, to remain at a certain health level or just because he dies to everything out there.

    How did this happen? When did it get this bad? Well, the main problem was ninja's sword nerf down to sharpness four. The 9 attack damage it has now are only very little more than a buffed heavy's damage output - the difference: speed 2 as opposed to one, invisibility, but infinitely less armor (dividing, of course :wink:).

    The balance to the damage nerfs was other damage nerfs, except ninja is barely affected by this because it has no armor. Just about every class still means a three-shot if you've used your ender pearl even once.

    So what to do about this, if we want to keep ninja as a recovery class and as the dealer of damage he should be? Brawl's answer at this point would probably to make ender-pearling with the flag impossible. I'm telling you, that doesn't fix your problem. Ninja's sword simply needs a rebuff.

    ~Plaut
     
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  2. BrandinoB

    BrandinoB Well-Known Member

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    I mean they could probably make it so you can't pick up the flag if your enderpearl is out of your inventory :L


    Like you I've found that I die most times when I face a regular of similar skill to me when I play as ninja.
    But like often times Ive found in groups, ninja is extremely op BECAUSE of the already pretty damn op damage output. Combined with the Speed II, it's hard to take on 3+ ninjas, or even 2 very skilled ninjas.

    I've remembered some past games on TO where we faced a team like TT, and they put like Chactation and Krabzz or someone else on defense as ninja, and that was extremely hard to get past, not to mention across a map.
    So I guess I think it needs a buff yet I don't think it needs a buff.
     
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  3. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    c l a s s l i m i t s

    ok, not happening, I know. But also here Brandino, if you count two ninjas, do the same for other classes. Any two classes should be able to easily take out one alone, imagine two chemists, two archers, two mages, two heavies, two medics or two dwarves fighting against you. In very few of those cases you actually stand a chance much larger than that against two ninjas, don't you think?
    I know ninja whirlwinding is OP, but so are other 2v1s.
     
  4. kriztmas

    kriztmas Well-Known Member

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    buff ninja :smile:
     
  5. BrandinoB

    BrandinoB Well-Known Member

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    The difference is, those other classes cant immediately pearl back to you and egg u in le face :I and then proceed to rhape u in de butt. Often times you can hit past them and begin running, and you're off to the races which you'll probably win since you have similar-equal running speeds. And again you actually have to get out of the flag room first.

    For classes like mage, yea you probably wont get far without help cuz yknow mage kills everything from 15 blocks away. Archer just go towards them a bit and then make random movements, get some cover, and you're good to go. Dwarfs you literally just have to grab the flag before they hit you back (though that's still hard af). For chemist you can just hit past them and escape, especially if youre a class like soldier.
     
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  6. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Minimum Brain Size

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    Ninjas win the Assassin/Ninja matchup hands down every time.
    That said it could use a recovery buff - 0 knockback to flag carriers perhaps? I also like this a lot:
     
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  7. Magnificent

    Magnificent Dallas Fuel

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    ggwp
     
  8. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    steal time is bad enough as is, waiting for the pearl to fly or even running is suicide.
     
  9. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Why does ninja need a buff lol. If it had a lower pick up at time then ez ghost, like honestly...
     
  10. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    Have you even read anything? I am saying the buff should consist of a higher damage output and I am only arguing against a nerf with the statement you quoted from me.
     
  11. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, if you can't kill a medic as ninja lol. I'm not even good at PvP yet I can still strafe 80% medics. Also it depends on skill level, what does average PvP skill mean lol. You have proof of these statements? No exactly. Ninja is fine.
     
  12. ACE_BLUE2

    ACE_BLUE2 Sup'

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    I'm gonna put myself on the spot. Ninja's sword does need a buff, here's my story why. I play archer all the time, and I hardly get killed by ninjas nowadays, beating a 3v1 against a full team of average ninjas as archer isn't hard anymore. Be that as it may, I still get f'd up by certain players who use ninja (@BrandinoB @Sibs @November ). The point is, if the majority of the ninja mains can't kill ****, the class needs a buff. You really can't play ninja def anymore without some help, it's a little ridiculous.

    I don't see why you're against this, considering how often you play ninja.
     
  13. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    yes very lol.
    There is this thing called empiricism. Empirical evidence is evidence. Just like you, a fairly skilled ninja, gets killed by a medic at your skill equivalent (for example pan), worse ninjas get killed by worse medics. Just because James or you or me can strafe xXx_noob_xXx123 without issues doesn't mean the same goes for everyone.
     
  14. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Pan is good at PvP? Pan is a very good medic? Not many ninjas can beat pan? I can name 1 medic as good as pan who is Reubens. My point is, thanks Einstein, I already knew pan was op.
     
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  15. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    take it as a compliment to your ninja skills, then.
     
  16. xMadeleine

    xMadeleine Member

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    sportyman your expert opinions brighten up my cold and dark life right now you are the only reason i am still on this planet thank you for this
     
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  17. Netflikx

    Netflikx Well-Known Member

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    Idc about invis because I don't need it to fight things, or buffing eggs or pearls, I just want Sharpness 6 back :frowning:
     
  18. Sibs

    Sibs Well-Known Member

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    Ninja is very much lacking in recovery despite the fact that recovery was it's intended role. With enderpearls requiring health to use, no armor, and now a pretty mediocre damage output compared to that of Chemists, Pyros, and other high alpha damage classes, ninjas have extremely low resources to work with and requires all of it to even kill one decently armored person.
    Of course it still can work and possibly dominate in this role with enough experience and skill as evidenced by players such as November, Krabbz, and yourself OP, but these people are only out liners compared to the average performances of other ninjas who don't have as much playtime as us nor have the best setup to pvp in MC really do struggle to actually recover alone (because more than one of anything can drastically change the outcome).

    Ninja capping does have it's own problems that have already been addressed both here and dozens of times elsewhere on the forums which I can agree with. As to the solution to this I'm not sure, however any solution that affects ninjas ability to recovery ( Ex: nerfing Pearls) in any way would be completely unfair.

    Reverting back to Sharpness 6 would help alot with it's current problems but I feel it could use more gimmicks or tools focused in recovery to help players use the class in that role instead of ninja capping while also giving other classes fair nerf's (like soldier's wall-climb for example) without even touching them. Of course for the sharp 6 we would to deal with the community who insists on thinking sharp 6 deals more damage here than on Mcpvp (without evidence).

    Gl,Hf,Blood for the Blood God.
     
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  19. Netflikx

    Netflikx Well-Known Member

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    Wait people actually think Sharpness 6 deals more damage on Brawl than on Mcpvp?? Lol what logic. Anyway I agree with your ideas. I honestly just think Ninja needs a better sword.
     
  20. Sibs

    Sibs Well-Known Member

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    That was the excuse the community had when Nom reverted the sword back to 6 last December... which only lasted for 24 hours till he nerfed it to 5 because of the complaints. As to their logic, they felt the damage table between the two servers were different because they "felt" it.
     
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