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The Lie We All Live In

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by ring0ff1re, May 8, 2016.

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  1. ring0ff1re

    ring0ff1re Member

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    This idea has been floating around my mind for some time now, and it wasnt until some thinking while brushing my teeth that I fully developed it.

    I've been playing this game for quite a while now for many years, starting on a friend's account and then transitioning to the one I play now, from an all the time ninja-defender to a more any class- support-defend-capper. So during my time here, I've come to recognize the myriad of people whom I play with, yet seldom speak to. However, in my long observation of you all, I have come to commit the sin that I wish to address to you now - to reveal the lie we have all been led to conclude and believe.

    To clarify on my transition as a player that I mentioned before (which was actually stimulated by a mix of boredom and the EULA-causing pt. system on mcctf), I currently tend to support people who hold the flag via Medic CLASS, generally when they are running with it. On the other hand, whenever I attempt to steal the flag and bring it back to my side, I am always grateful for any of the help I recieve along the way (sidenote: To all of these people and those in the future, thank you; I do appreciate the help, however do not always have the time to do it directly, or didn't see your name).

    Unfortunately, and those of you who main capping will agree, there will be times when no one comes to your cry and saves you. This is absolutely normal. Sometimes people just don't read the chat (it's all the way at the bottom). Sometimes they're busy. But then again, why do people even go support in the first place. And no, I don't mean those you accidentally run into, that beautiful medic who just happened to bump into you and heals you. I mean the people who, when they see you just took your opponent's flag, stop doing wtv they were doing and either rush to where their compass is pointing or reselect their class then follow the compass. Why did they do that when they were defending or farming kills or trying to cap themselves? I mean, I doubt there is anyone here who just waits as a medic in their spawn until they see someone took the opponent team's flag. There more important question here, though, is why don't we do this more often?

    I remember playing a game once, the one with the big land bridge over the void with stone castles on both sides (just to give you something to imagine; I know, it's not a lot). As a medic, I rushed over to the other side with the opponents flag in mind, along with the many other players along side. And while doing so, I thought to myself something along the lines of "Wow, with this raid we're bound to get the flag." Long story short, we didn't. The problem was obvious, that no one was helping each other. Regardless, alone I continued to attempt the cap multiple times, getting pretty far on a few of them (relatively speaking, in comparison to the others, who mostly by then stopped trying). In the chat, however, I found out that another player came on - one with a good reputation of capping - when his/her friend said something along the lines of "(NAME), cap for us". Soon enough, appeared on my screen in big letters was "(NAME) stole the (other) teams flag!". And so, as I normally would, I rushed as a medic to his side. But to my surprise, as I came to him, I found that he wasn't alone, but had at least 2 other people defending and healing him from the oppenent team's defense. WHERE WERE THIS SUPPORT BEFORE???

    Had I recieved the same help from these same people, surely the game would've been over by then. The funny thing is, had any of the other people who attempted to cap in the beginning has the same help from those same people, they could've ended the game earlier as well. So why didn't they come? What is the difference between me and (NAME), from him/her and any of the other players? The answer is kind of obvious isn't it. That person was better than us. Therefore, that person was more likely to cap.

    The problem here is that if (NAME) was so good then why did he/she need help? In actuality, that person would have surely died if he/she had no support. This phase is almost universal in this game that we play, CTF. For any of you who cap main, think back and remember all the times when you capped all by yourself in comparison to that of when you needed a medic or chemist or cake or someone to pass to (excluding ninja steals or teleport steals). Not surprisingly, the latter will outweigh the former.

    The idea I wish to share with you all is this: in this game, there really is no real good player; it's all relative (once again, Einstein's ideas seem to be correct). Yeah, anyone could walk away with the flag almost unscathed if the opponent defense sucked or had only 1 tryhard. The same goes the other way around. I remember in a chat where one person was arguing something and said "Try capping with (NAME2) on the other team." Right then I thought "well I capped against that person before easy." Why it was easy? Cuz he was pretty much their only defense.

    This game we play, it is truly is a team game. No one on a more than 10 person game can "hold the team", unless they are magically able to defend and steal at the same time. Each person is only as good as the people around him. A team can only win when the teammates help each other.

    (If you are still reading this, I am truly surprised, but I thank you for taking their to do so).

    But if there only exists a good team, and no good player, then what's with heck is with the support discrimination? This lie we live in, that there indeed is a good player, has altered our minds to believe that that player - the one whose name we don't recognize - isn't worth spending our time helping. Although correlation doesn't imply causation, I barely talked to anyone in my 3 years being a Steve-skinned defending ninja, but now as a more well rounded player seem to use the chat more. Did I simply become a better player? Heck no! My skill level has been pretty much the same from now and before. However, since capping wins the game (and subconsciously in our minds, defending doesn't), it SEEMS like I got (slightly) better (only slightly as not all people come as I yell for help).

    I must admit, however, some people are more skilled at a CLASS than another. Having only recieved Chemist recently (thanks again, Reuben!), and since I don't use slotbar hotkeys, I'd die in a chemist battle with any potspammer. But did you all know that? I once was on a server with a (once active) player who, with us being the only ones on, wanted to chemist battle, with that person ending up surprised to find that I didn't own it. In a similar way, how do we know how "worthy" a person, who has the flag, is for our help if we

    1. Don't know what class they are in to discriminate or
    2. Don't know what their skill level is?

    Should that person autimatically be ignore by his teammates? It seems, instinctively, he will be.

    Indeed, no person should ever believe he is good player by how many caps he recieves, or that Superman will always come when he needs help, and so should experience failure such that he learns of his in-game limits and improve (just as one should in real life). But we shouldn't always keep doing this! I mean, go ahead and kill that potspammer all you want, but in general, we shouldn't let these less skilled players wander on their own all the time. As I've been saying before, their likelihood of dying is similar to that of those we falsely consider "good". So why can't we defend them, heal them, allow them to survive and cap as we do others? Would we not only then win more games, but also allow them to improve in skill and learn to help others as they themselves were helped? Back then, on my first game of CTF, the first thing I did was pick up the flag and run into spawn :smile:

    Note: please ignore all writing errors
     
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    #1 ring0ff1re, May 8, 2016
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
  2. featherpaw

    featherpaw Your friendly neighborhood kitten! :3

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    TL:grinning:R people don't understand what role they should play and no one helps each other. (that's what I got from this for those of you that don't want to read). However, the same could be true for people the main capping. They go it alone, when they should realize ctf is a team game. Rushing the flag room with only 1 person hardly ever achieves anything. So why then, when capping mains see other people rushing the flag room, don't they change their class to meet the needs of a support role? Being versatile and adapting to situations is what wins games, not just being the hero of some anime.
     
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  3. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    >Rushing the flag room with only 1 person hardly ever achieves anything.

    unless that 1 person is a soldier or ninja

    >not just being the hero of some anime.

    fantastic analogy
     
  4. featherpaw

    featherpaw Your friendly neighborhood kitten! :3

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    Lol thanks. I watched skywilliams and he made that analogy. I just had to add it to my collection. XD
     
  5. Risabu

    Risabu Active Member

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    Ur all relatively bad compared 2 me
     
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  6. jarboyp

    jarboyp Bunny Defender

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    So, what is the point of this post? Are you just complaining or are trying to get more people to play support?
     
  7. ring0ff1re

    ring0ff1re Member

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    No, I'm not complaining! It doesn't really matter if you win or lose - it's just a game.

    Edit: If you really don't understand this then I suggest you think about why I chose "The Lie We All Live In" as the title. The point of this post is to address that lie. The bulk of the thesis probably lies within the last 8 "paragraphs" or so. Also, that more people should play support is a HUGE oversimplification (slightly even false in a sense) of what I'm trying to say.
     
    #7 ring0ff1re, May 8, 2016
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
  8. Katmorder_

    Katmorder_ Well-Known Member

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  9. __Mountaindew__

    __Mountaindew__ Well-Known Member

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    well... I'll sometimes wait and hide somewhere on the other side of the map for a flag carrier x'D
    And other times i'll switch between defense and offense depending on how the game seems to be going

    ...though sometimes when I try to support the other guy already got support and blahlghsagklha....
    ramblerambleramble
    tyty x'D very much appreciated :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  10. patriq

    patriq Well-Known Member

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  11. GreenNature

    GreenNature Nature is Creative

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    I just thought of Charlie Puth's One Call Away.
     
  12. ring0ff1re

    ring0ff1re Member

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    Oh gosh no. If anything, it was from the title of the movie "Waiting for Superman"
     
  13. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    So true man. I too, do my best thinking while brushing my teeth. That's why I bring a spare toothbrush to all my math quizzes, cause it sure beats the hell out of studying :wink:

    As for the topic of your post... I'll get back to you on that. Gotta go brush my teeth first ^_^
     
  14. Chactation

    Chactation Active Member

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    ***** i dont live here speak 4 urself
     
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  15. TheMaelstromsEye

    TheMaelstromsEye Well-Known Member

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    stop being a boomdrone, thats my job thank you very much.
     
  16. Creux

    Creux Active Member

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    arlight *knuckle crack* lets break this down.
    No. The example you shared before this bordered on irrelevant. there are so many other possibilities that existed that I struggled to even respond to it appropriately. If you're trying to say that any player can be good if they get the support then following that logic all teams in the team scene should be equal correct? since they are for the most part fully functioning teams. No. they aren't even close to even. You have a few teams that repeatedly dominate other teams. and it's actually kind of strange how that happens. considering the teams that are dominating change so much. You only have a few players that consistently stay on a team.

    Again. You're presenting irrelevant situations to support you're still baseless conclusion. Let me give you a math problem that can also explain this situation, but also accounts for good players.

    Good Player = 10
    You = 6
    Randies = 3

    You are trying to cap against Good Player while he is defending cause you want to prove that it's totally possible, because he is alone.

    so their defense as it stands is 10

    you have help. you have 2 randies supporting you.

    so your offense is 6+3+3.

    And look at that your able to cap, but hold on nothing about this is relative. So let me explain why this is much more accurate then what you're saying. Simple fact is that having a bad player is still better than having no player. Why it might appear relative is because it's pvp Both team's players have value. So if blue has 20 players who are 5's then it is 100. If red has 5 players who are 10's and 15 3's then red team is 95. So blue team wins even though red had 5 good players, but that isn't relative. in order for what you're saying to be true. those 3's would have to have an actual effect on the value of the 10's. but they don't. those are still good players.

    I've shown how it's completely possible for there to be good players in the situations you described so of course people would want to invest their time into what they consider a more promising proposition.

    Now, Obviously I am oversimplifying. Gameplay is much more complicated than this, and it is very had to just assign values to players, but it isn't relative. Saying it is relative throws everything back a few years, and there is no reason to do this besides being more noob friendly.

    On an unrelated note. Please cut the fluff. it makes it hard to read and even harder to respond too. so many irrelevant cases and statements that are actually true intermingled with false ones. It's a good way to get people to agree with you, but a terrible way to encourage people to think for themselves.
     
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  17. GreenNature

    GreenNature Nature is Creative

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    CTF is fun, you have your ups and downs and your teammates can cooperate, but we don't have to dissect every information another player writes about.
     
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  18. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    No
     
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  19. lazzerzs

    lazzerzs Member

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  20. Xelasi

    Xelasi Well-Known Member

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    There were so many sentences that I felt like I was reading a Brawl staff application.
     
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