Idea soldier should have to hit enemies to charge wallclimb

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TIL left clicking on enemies is "difficult to use". it is a huge, significant part of the class but it's also ridiculously overpowered and should have to be earned as opposed to given for free, especially since the majority of the classes in this game have no vertical mobility, nor ranged attacks.

does anyone else feel like explaining why giving a reason for soldiers to actually fight instead of only running away and wallspamming for easy captures is bad? i'm not even specifying how many hits you'd need to fully charge the bar, i'm just proposing the mechanic.

pyro needs hits to be useful, why is this mechanic unapplicable for soldier? you can provide reasoning and i'll concede to this being a bad idea if it makes sense, instead of this pathetic brainless circlejerking

 

Yeah, that's the point of this mechanic. Soldier is way too powerful, and depending on the map you can just walk into a flagroom with 20 or so defenders alone, fly out, then fly your way across midfield where barely any classes can catch up to you.

This is a PVP game, yet most soldier cappers I see barely even use left click. Why fight (which, btw, is kind of the point of the game) when you can just run around and spam right click and hardly any class can catch up to you? The entire point of this would be to make it so that soldiers actually have to turn around and PVP in order to continue flying away.

The purpose of the class is to have extra mobility while capping, yes. But when this mobility is such a rarity in other classes (hell, there are no other classes with vertical mobility that doesn't affect their other class abilities), I feel like the ability to fly away from a bunch of landlocked classes needs to be earned, rather than supplied at a more-than-decent rate.

This way, soldiers need to actually use their above-average armour, health, and decent weapon to fight, as opposed to just hopping and running away, which is a complete pain for anyone playing defence.

Because it's a limiting factor for an otherwise obscenely powerful class ability? That's the point of the limiting factor - to make sure the soldier gets hit to preserve his immunity. And again, I haven't specified how many hits you'd need to charge up the bar fully, this is purely a mechanic proposal. You possibly might only need to turn around and hit an enemy twice in order to scale a tree, then jump from tree to tree without having to wallclimb a lot.

Soldier is the only regular-speed capping class that can consistently survive a recovery team of 5-10 ninjas, because they can't even reach the soldier, and the cost for using ninja's vertical mobility is literally 20% of their health. On the other hand, soldiers can just bunny hop from high to low, high to low, and this ability recharges the perfect amount to keep enabling them to use it. Not to mention a soldier could probably turn around and fight 5 ninjas and possibly come out on top by hopping, landing a couple hits, then hopping again to prevent combos. But again, why do that when you can fly away and probably avoid damage in its entirety?

It's not like turning around to hit a few enemies so you can better escape them is going to get you killed. Soldier is an underpowered heavy, but I'm not saying it should play a heavy's role. It's going to be something more akin to pyro's frenzy, in that you'll need to do something to earn the powerful class ability - because it's a terrible show of bias to limit pyro's class ability so much and leave soldier's pretty much unharmed.

If chemist could fly, I'd give that limitation to them, too. I mean, look at this from a gameplay perspective. Is it better gameplay to have a class that can run and fly away from anything with relative ease (compared to any other capping class), or have a fair fight for both the soldier (because, again, I haven't specified the amount of hits needed) and the recovery? Don't you think it would be ideal for a soldier, as one player, to have to rely on other players on their team to deal with a 5-person recovery, instead of being able to cap solo?

People are so used to soldier being able to cap with little to no assistance that they see it as some sort of blasphemy to make soldier actually use its sword for something other than spamming right click to fly away from an entire team's defence with no support. Shows a pretty big gameplay flaw, don't you think?

1 player with the flag, with no support, should be able to be taken down by its hard counter class without much trouble. With pyro's ridiculous nerf and soldier being left alone almost entirely, once you're out of the flagroom no single class can stop you (unless you're unlucky with an assassin or archer, but then again that applies to every class, so it doesn't count). Hell, even with a pyro in the flagroom, a soldier can make it out a lot of the time, depending on the map, and depending on whether the pyro is lucky enough to have enemies nearby to farm frenzy on.

You can't nerf a class's hard counter into the ground and leave the countered class essentially completely intact. If you're not going to rebuff the counter class, you have to nerf the now-overpowered one.

They really wouldn't be terribly annoying, and you could even fend off a soldier at midfield and in the process you'd help weaken the enemy offence. Hell, this game has huge midfields and tiny flagrooms, yet it's very likely every opponent you see entering the enemy flagroom is nearly untouched. Soldier's need to actually fight at mid would be a lot better for gameplay.

Soldier isn't a killing machine, and this essentially makes them even weaker. The most you'd see is soldiers coming to mid and hitting people a few times to charge up before they get to the flagroom (and you'd be able to hit them back, unlike your Mage comparison), then they'd actually have to hit defenders and recovery in order to continue to use their ability - which is the main point of this mechanic.

And, if soldier really falls apart as easily as people in this thread are saying (hint: it doesn't), then it should be no problem, right? Useless "until they manage to hit enemies" and getting a few hits is "difficult to use", for gods sake you'd think these people have never played CTF before.

 

It's definitely not as tanky as heavy, but iron armour and 4 steaks is pretty damn tough, and a soldier wouldn't have to win a fight to charge up. If there's a chemist, you can hit him whatever amount of times you need to get an adequate amount of climbs, then fly away. And if there's a pyro or dwarf, you should be dying anyway, those are counter classes.

This doesn't turn the class on its head in any way. The ultimate goal of this change would not be to tank, but to hit enemies to preserve mobility. How is having to turn around and hit recovery a couple times completely changing the point of the class? As I've said, it's providing a way to earn possibly the most powerful ability in the game.

Maybe it's turning the class on its head in that you might have a larger chance of dying against the entire other team's defence. Oh, the horror!

And given that I've made a whole bunch of points in my earlier post as to why it is a logical change to make, I don't see how you claim that it's "illogical" from your one argument here.

 

Exactly, there is fleet of enemies trying to kill you when you have the flag. Do you think it's balanced that a soldier can often convert caps against heaps of enemies? Do you think that's good gameplay, or are you just being irrational and biased because you play soldier?

With the amount of defenders in a well-populated server's flagroom, a well-designed game wouldn't even have a single enemy survive the flagroom, ever, let alone have a pretty damn good chance of making it halfway across mid (and then probably getting a medic)

Mind pointing out why?

Really, man? I thought you were better than this. Not even the slightest effort to respond to my counter-argument? Or do you just not have a response (because that's entirely fine to admit, y'know)?

Your one argument also does not counter or disqualify any of my other well-reasoned points, and you've made no effort to do that either. Mind explaining to me how the fact that "oh deary me, a soldier might die more" is more valid a point than "better gameplay for a much larger variety of classes" and "balancing soldier v pyro as it is supposed to be"?

But eh, **** it. If you can't be bothered giving a reasonable and polite argument like I've done with you, I won't waste my time trying to do the same. I'm right, you're wrong. GTFO.

 

>soldier flies up to roof
>soldier walks backwards and forwards repeatedly