Idea soldier should have to hit enemies to charge wallclimb

The problem is that the soldier can still recharge their wallclimb while being out of range of enemies.

I know. As I've stated many times before this, it is a limiting factor for an overpowered ability. Please, feel free to further inform me of the points I am making.

I know. As I've stated many times before this, it is a limiting factor for an overpowered ability. Please, feel free to further inform me of the points I am making.

 

lol r u dumb

 

i have thought about it

thanks for proving my point. other classes get nerfed into the ground, such as soldier's main counter, pyro, and yet soldier stays almost exactly the same.

 

the first sign of losing an argument is nitpicking someone else's spelling/grammar/punctuation

That insult wasn't even directed at you by the way, maybe read?

please explain how soldier was "heavily nerfed"? the xp bar hardly changes gameplay at all.

this has nothing to do with my "good argument"

the fact that you have never heard of me is testament to your lack of experience on ctf.

 

there was no counter-argument. you literally said "other people said x and y, so go away"

in a similar way, commenting on the fact that i cannot be bothered correctly punctuating my sentence (i don't know, maybe that makes my arguments less valid? note that my actual points, raised in post 9, are written properly) says nothing about my argument. if you're going to spout irrelevant nonsense, so will i.

and, i mean, yeah, forum ratings are essentially forum credibility. if anything, it proves that i am a lot more active than you around here, and makes your pathetic "you don't know what you are talking about" argument nullified.

and that says something about your experience

uh, yes, he can. nom himself said he has noticed very little change in the class with the addition of the XP bar.

let me quote you a few things from nightowl's thread

Nom: I essentially main Soldier, and this rework is hardly an impact at all to my gameplay.
Merlin rules : I'm a soldier main and haven't found the changes too bad..
Brandino b: I would agree with you. . . except that I haven't really found much difference in the gameplay.
Ace blue 2: I don't main soldier, but I do play it often. I don't see any sort of major difference in the gameplay. I actually forgot it was even there.
Syringe: only wallspam and flying up massive walls are effected, the nerf did not in fact make it UP. It is still able to escape most classes easily making it infinitely better than heavy which has to tough out every single ninja archer and assassin that comes its way.
Fleverus: I would like to agree with Sir_Inge- the nerf to soldier is not that bad
Dan_777777777777777: I do think it is a reasonable nerf.

i'm afraid no one agrees

you haven't responded to anything in my actual argument, which was in this post 9 of this thread. and since nobody cares enough to provide an actual rebuttal, i'm inclined to think there is none. no one in this thread has made a valid point that i haven't (even pre-emptively) countered in post 9, and that wasn't some pathetic "no" circlejerk.

hell, even munson had to resort to some pathetic "i'm right, you're wrong" statement, and we all know he's willing to type out 5000 words if he actually has a point to make.

you aren't adding any arguments or viewpoints that are relevant to this thread. you're going off on irrelevant tangents that have nothing to do with my point. the one thing you've said that bears weight is "soldier is heavily nerfed", but it's common consensus that if you find it to be a "heavy" nerf, you're just not playing soldier as the gameplay intends.

and please, stop with the hypocritical "oh i am so disappointed !!!" statements. if you're going to make proud and arrogant statements like "I have reached the conclusion that you are not very experienced on CTF", do you honestly expect me to raise proper arguments with you? i'm not going to attempt a discussion with someone who is quite evidently high on their perceived superiority over another player because he follows the hivemind in the thread.

now if you care to make some proper arguments with evidence, instead of pointing at others' arguments and insulting me (which you started, mind you), i'll be happy to have a discussion.

 

@Evan19119 replying to your points now, as your post was unfinished earlier.

I really don't see why I need to play soldier for a little while to understand the (very basic) mechanics of the class? As a defensive main, I probably know soldier just as well as any other soldier main.

Eh, this is all largely map dependent. In a map like Blackout you can probably afford to just hang near the side of the mid building and not have to fight. In a map like Canadian Fort you can probably just scale trees and keep changing your vertical position - not to mention it's very hard for ninjas to pearl up to trees.

And I'm sure, as a soldier main, you'll have encountered recoveries that consist of 5-6 ninjas all chasing you. In a situation like that, it's pretty illogical to turn and fight - it's a lot more likely that you'll survive if you just run for it and use wallclimb as much as possible. This also works, more often than it should.

This is a pretty big misinterpretation of my point. I'm responding to the people who are saying that this is an illogical addition to soldier. I'm simply reminding people that this mechanic is already present in the game.

And yes, pyro is, without a doubt, the central defensive class in the game. Soldier, as I'm sure you'll agree, is the central offensive class. Both also bear similarities in that they have decent survivability and very powerful class abilities (true damage/frenzy and wallclimb), and as such, are natural counters to one another. Thinking logically, shouldn't soldier's powerful ability therefore have the same, or similar, limitation to pyro's, in order to achieve better game balance? You are absolutely right in that they are doing completely different things, and this only makes them all the more comparable.

With that being said, I don't think I have to counter the point about Dwarf. That's a silly comparison to make.

I never said it was easy, but it's way easier than it should be. In a balanced game, you should need around 20 offensive players to cap on that (given that these offensive players are all of identical skill level to the defensive). As the game stands right now, there's very little two soldiers, a ninja and a medic can't do if they're coordinating, against any defence.

And yes, if a soldier makes it out to mid, on a lot of maps, half the classes on defence become useless on recovery.

It's a PVP-based objective game, and it would be better for gameplay if the PVP aspect was more evenly distributed among roles. But yes, this was a flaw in my argument.

How does making a flagcarrier have to fight a little bit in a fighting-oriented game make the reword irrelevant? As stated many a time, I have not specified how many hits you would need - but I'd estimate about 6 for a full climb bar. Hit someone a mere 3 times, and you can already fly away from the recovery. Is that really so bad?

First of all, this is a very inappropriate statement. @Lord_Roke

And no, that's not earning the ability because that's entirely determined on external factors. A limitation should operate within the class. With your reasoning, the ability is not at all earned when there is a couple heavies defending in a smaller game - which kind of ruins the whole point of having to earn the ability.

It's impossible to claim one's argument as untrue when both of us are basing our arguments on anecdotal evidence. And I will say again, it's very largely map-dependent. Some of what I am saying is untrue on certain maps and true on others, the exact same goes for your points. In a game like this, it's foolish to make blanket statements about gameplay.

I will admit that my saying "consistently" is probably the wrong word to use, but on certain maps, it certainly is true.

Again, very largely dependent on the flagroom. A lot of times soldiers can bunnyhop twice and only take one hit from frenzy. On a lot of flagrooms, you don't have time to get enough hits to charge your frenzy, and you're entirely reliant on other classes to come in and provide your frenzy hits. And this is honestly the worst thing about frenzy: it turns what should be a reliable counter into one that is situational and luck-based.

Also - correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm 90% sure that hitting someone while in frenzy mode does not count as hits towards the next frenzy.

It's OP if you think about it as a fighting game with no objective. When you consider the abilities of offensive classes, though, it seems a lot less powerful.

Well done taking what I said out of context. I was asking the user if what he said was a result of irrationality and bias, as, I'm sure you'll agree, his point wasn't exactly the strongest.

And I really don't think I'm being irrational or biased, given the fact that I'm talking purely from a gameplay perspective, and that I've reasoned why free vertical mobility is overpowered when compared to the limitations of other classes.

Aww, what a waste of a clever finishing statement. Couldn't resist using it twice, could you?

And you couldn't resist using that twice either!

It's also nonsensical to say that when you haven't bothered to read my counter argument, and if you read the context in which I made that statement you will see that is what Munson essentially said to me. Doesn't make sense in the context you're using, sorry!