Which?

Where is assassin

 

**** all you haters.

 

Jesus Christ, people think Archer needs a rework more than NECRO? THIS IS INSANITY!! Do you people not want Necro to not be useless???!!!

 

I love how people think archer needs a rework over dwarf necro and assassin right now xD

 

I love how archer is the most powerful class in the game right now xD

 

Fashionista

 

I love how that's because it does xD

 

Engi.

 

Reworking already reworked classes (ninja engineer and pyro) is downright stupid.
y not just buff other classes instead of completely redesigning a class, it saves time and is simpler to think of a solution rather than nerfing everything.

 

by that logic it is safe to say every class should be buffed to archer's level, do you see a slight problem here

 

The only thing that archer has going for it is an instakill that you can dodge and completely avoid. I'm so tired of many people complaining about archer for basically 1 reason. They keep getting headshot? If you keep doing the same thing every time of course you are going to get sniped multiple times. Steps to avoiding an archer: #1. Notice its presence which is very easy to do since most archers miss their first shot to be able to calculate their next one. #2. Do not move in a straight line, what I like to do with an archer is to run then back up immediately so they miss their shot and I can run to the next hiding spot and do so again. #3 kill the archer.

Archers instakill is the least of our worries and is most likely never going to get reworked or will be the last one too. People who want archer reworked, lets see how that would effect the game? What is archer good for? Sniping, and thats it. Archer plays a significant role in this gamemode which if its main source of power is in any way nerfed or reworked, every single other class gets a major buff and oh my god think of all the engineers you would awaken if archers nerfed or reworked. Archers getting nerfed would mean that flag carriers have less things to worry about, they can just engineer camp with no worries of getting sniped. It would be mass chaos and hysteria.

Archer getting nerfed/reworked would effectively destroy ctf as infantry wont be controlled by archers, engineers would be played more, more engineer camping then you could scream at, etc.

 

this is the problem. are you going to travel 30 blocks (most likely up a mountain or building or something) to kill a ranged class in an objective-based game? only to have them respawn, travel to a different cliff, and continue shooting you?

and if you don't want to waste your time fighting off some dumb class that's gonna start bowspamming you off the cliff they're on if you try attacking them, what do you do? have to strafe or constantly hide behind bushes and rocks and crap so you dont get one-hit-killed?

yeah, that's it. long ranged instakills in a game where most classes are limited to a melee radius of about 5 blocks. that's it.

or nerf engi

OH my GOD you are RIGHT think of the HYSTERIA that would be caused if our ranged instakill class is somewhat NERFED! it isn't like a nerf implies that the removal of a powerful ability would be compensated with something else a little less powerful!!!

we CANNOT nerf ANY class in the game, or else FLAG CARRIERS will have LESS THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT.

THANK you, DIMENSIONZL THE EAGLE EYED MAGE for ENLIGHTENING me

 

You obviously do not know me because I will do exactly that if it means protecting a flag carrier or an assault of my team. Archer is easily killable by another archer, an elf, and mage.

You are very aggresive imuffles, how many times have you gotten headshot because you keep making the same mistakes instead of taking an alternative route to get past the archers.

Or nerf this, or nerf that, seriously. It wouldnt matter, archers instakill is necessary to the game and everyone knows this deep down even if they dont want to admit it.

Okay iamaggresive, think of a nerf/rework to archer that still takes care of engineers and flag camping with about 10 defenders in the open, or a team helping a flag carrier get across the map, as well as being able to control mass assaults of infantry.

I can see why most people dont argue with you, you are arrogant, stubborn, and ignorant thinking your opinion is the best, holy cow you are a forums version of me when i'm in game.

Thankfully I am a master at dealing with arrogant, stubborn, and ignorant people that I will happily argue with you.

Now stop being so aggressive. Thats my job

 

Necro needs a buff, not a rework. As for archer, for the love of god, please remove the knockback altogether. Seriously, even most archer mains don't see much of a reason for it, as it makes the class downright unkillable.

 

You say as I get a 10 ks from killing archers as mage lol

 

Yay for turning this instantly into an archer debate! Firstly I'd like to point out that archer is quite obviously overpowered in it's current state and that needs fixing. That doesn't necessarily make it the most in need of a rework, just in need of one. Secondly, given what's already been posted on https://www.brawl.com/threads/57950/ the staff don't have the ability to make major coding changes for a while, so all classes are gonna have to stay the same for the moment. With that said, I'd better respond to a couple posts about this.

Archer has better armor than a lot of other classes, and it has a sword which it can do damage with. Not preferred given the headshot mechanic, but they're still perfectly viable to use. Some archers can't use these to fight, and so will either bowspam or camp. There's plenty more than just the headshot going for the class, although that of course is the main draw. People complain about archer a lot because it has a long range instakill and is a free class so there's a lot of them around. Yes, i agree, instakill shouldn't be there, it should be changed so it's potent but not instakilling, much like pyro (unless a crit frenzy of course). Not everyone is a mage though boomdrone, they're not actively seeking out targeting archers, and so what you might find easy to notice, other people don't, and you musn't forget that.

Firstly, it's going to be reworked, there isn't a debate on this. Chap has clearly stated all instakills are going, which means archers headshot WILL be reworked. It's also not the smallest problem we have. Secondly, yes, archer is a killing class, make no mistake, but it's perfectly capable of performing support all over the map, which is great objectively. If you mess with archer's headshot to the point where it's a joke, then yes youu'll make the class pointless. However, reworking it with similar values to that used when reworking pyro and everything should do absolutely fine. Engineers are a pain in the ass and there's little to no skill involved in using it, yes, but if archer was reworked right then there wouldn't be any reason for more engineers to exist. Same goes with flag carriers, as it would still be very potent. People don't want archer to be nerfed to the point where it's unusable, just to the point that it's fair (except in certain exceptions, and those people aren't going to get what they want)

No it wouldn't, it'd just mean that other classes would do more and there'd be fewer archers around, which right now is no bad thing since I've seen games where 70% + of one team is archer, and that's crazy.

Most archers that travel up the side of the mountain need the height to be able to shoot anything at all, and they're likely to be very innacurate even when they are. They are exceptions, but i mean it's totally objective to remove an archer in order to allow your offence to reach the flagroom, and so I don't really see why it wouldn't be objective based. Objective doesn't mean everyone rushes at the flag, it means everyone plays their part to aid winning the game by capturing the flag, which has all sorts of sub-objectives and indirectly related jobs.

Headshot them back, they'll be an easy hit since they're on a cliff and don't move. Would be nice to give them a taste of their own medicine. Alternatively invisible ninja, getting behind them and knocking them off yourself works pretty nice. Or alternatively there are plenty of maps where there are archer free routes which you can use, it's up to you if you choose to use them or not. Some routes to the flag are more dangerous than others.

Just because this game has more melee classes doesn't necessarily mean it will or should always be only melee oriented. With that said, some aspects of archer is overpowered, it's a fact. Those should be corrected.

I'd prefer killing it with fire, but nerfing works too

Agreed, there's nothing wrong with this at all, and people make it out to be a lot worse than it actually would be.

I have the perfect solution, nerf all offensive classes, so you can fix archer!

In response to the actual thread question though, yes archer is a problem and should rightly be a high priority on the list of things to be corrected. However, I would definitely argue that it shouldn't be the absolute top of the list. Archer is OP yes, but it's not completely broken as a class. Look at necromancer, it's pretty much unusable right now, and even when it is used it's little to no help in game. The zombies literally are a joke. Equally Dwarf can crouch and get a sword which can instakill multiple classes and severely cripple everything in the game. In a flagroom where it can be properly defended it's almost impossible to take down. I think those two are probably more important to fix first, but it doesn't mean archer shouldn't be on the list of things to fix at all

 

thank you for listing 3 out of 13 classes that can deal with archer, which is "the least of our worries".

one that is often either more slow, or has another archer? yeah, happens quite a bit.

i see no reasoning or evidence to back up this claim.

i'm thinking a single class shouldnt be able to do all that, and the fact that you think this is the standard for an archer rework shows your incredibly warped idea of what a balanced class is.

when my argument is a lot better than the other person's, i will act that way, yes.

this discussion we are having has direct relevance to the thread. if any post here is unnecessary it's yours.

@LordCh4os i mostly agree with what you're saying. have a couple points though:

agreed, though I think the fact that archers can instantly respawn and immediately be able to affect a large portion of the map makes killing archers not the best route as far as objective play goes. other classes you'd have to wait for them to return to the flagroom, etc, but archer can respawn and shoot down the enemy team's offence from one or two blocks outside spawn on most maps.

sure, if there's an archer aiming at your flagcarrier its definitely objective to kill them, but in most cases i don't think it's practical.

that's the problem - there are only a few classes that can reliably take down an archer, and probably the most successful is archer itself.