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Another Elf Rant

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Creux, Jun 15, 2016.

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  1. Creux

    Creux Active Member

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    In response to this thread, but deserves it's own discussion.

    Elf is just a bunch of balance patches that should have occurred with the other classes but instead got made into it's own. It's literally the manifestation of this communities cluelessness.
    • Pure Element consideration as a nerf for archer. It was put in elf to see if it was viable for archer
    • Air Element consideration as a rework for soldier. Was also put in elf to see if it could be a viable replacement for soldier.
    • Earth Element was meant to be a nerf for soldier. If soldier proved to be a big enough problem then surely the community will used this class which has blatant direct interaction with this class. and obviously the community is super humanly skilled so make it as hard to use as possible. don't want them to get upset at how op elf is
    • Water Element is the nerf for pyro. If Pyro is such a problem then enough people will start playing elf to counter them. Also make it full pull back only to again make it as hard to use as possible.
    • Magic Shield Thingy Since Projectiles in general tend to be pretty powerful in ctf (literally all of them, yet people are more willing to point a finger at defense classes than ones with projectiles)
    Yet none of this happened. Instead we have a class with no role, no consistent method of play, and was made to be as weak and hard to play as possible so that it's effect wouldn't have a significant enough impact to cause an uproar. It's stinks of that middle ground mentality that won't upset the community and make more money than actually fixing the classes causing the problems. Yet people will still say that Elf doesn't need to be reworked because they have no idea what balance in a game means, and think that their opinion is somehow useful. Some people will even say that balance is the exact opposite of fun, and then blame the nerfs that have happened for the decline in their enjoyment of the game.

    Get this through your thick heads people. the majority of us are ignorant of how this game should work so just shutup and let the people who do understand deal with it. The last thing ctf needs is another Elf.

    So, yes elf needs a ****ing rework. So do most of the other classes. this isn't news. why are we even discussing that still. every single thread in the "CTF" section should be flagged for necro posting at this point. I hate all of you. pass the clorox.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
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  2. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    I've pretty much given up on trying to give suggestions to improve anything.

    The only reworks people can ever agree on is Necro, Dwarf and Engi reworks because no one really plays them so it doesn't affect them much. Any other class and people will think "oh no, muh main class will not be able to get as many kills! bad rework u suk!"

    The complete inability to look at the game objectively (or even try to) that 90% of the players on this server has is what limits good changes. Some people are always going to cry about how their class deserves to be more powerful because it takes more skill, or some BS like that.

    And if you manage to get an unanimous agreement on your rework, the coders are too lazy to implement it and the staff don't even acknowledge its existence.

    This game is a lost cause, it's better for your health to accept it.
     
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  3. BAWSS5

    BAWSS5 Well-Known Member

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    I accepted ctf was sh*t from day 1 and I've been happy with my life.
     
  4. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Agreed.

    You can't forget the wind element nerf either. I still do not understand, to this day, how anyone thought nerfing the heck out Elf's ability to do one thing somewhat well (capturing the flag) was a good idea.
     
  5. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    I'm one of those people, at least when it comes to elf. Kind of gave up on playing it as a main class after some useless efforts after the nerf. That said, the soldier nerf really did nothing but give an unlimited class some kind of restraint (not very noticeably effective, but works to some degree), the pyro nerf made pyro far more fun to play without one-hit instakills (albeit there are now two-hit kills instead), and I can't speak for chemist.

    But balance, if it's even remotely possible to achieve, does seem like a rather uninteresting way to play CTF. Anyway, skill levels are always the deal breaker in a "balanced" CTF, and of course they're what seem to break "unbalanced" CTF as well. You can do your best to balance out all of the classes based on the gameplay of the supposedly average player, but once you get multiple players involved, people begin to complain about so-and-so being ridiculously OP at what they do.

    So yes, the ultimate goal of balancing CTF is a very lost cause, but that doesn't mean it's such a pathetic effort to make ongoing small fixes to make the game that much less bad over time.
     
    #5 pookeythekid, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  6. Creux

    Creux Active Member

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    What do you mean by balance? I've stated that everyone has extremely different ideas on not only how to achieve balance, but also on how balance will affect the game. It wouldn't be so far fetched to say that everyone has a different definition of what balance is.

    There was a post a year or three ago that was supposed to put everyone on the same page to this, and I still parrot the videos whenever I mention the word balance or skill.

    Regardless of all the opinions and all the arguments. There is a right way to balance ctf. One that results in the best game possible. that result without a doubt involves balance of the classes and a balancing for skill level. All remotely good games are designed with these concepts. And it is possible. Just not probable, and its probability of being achieved is even lower if all of us keep our adamancy of our uneducated opinions. Elf is the proof of this trend.
     
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  7. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    I'll take a look at the videos. Right now, my definition of balance is that if a player were able to face an exact copy of himself as a different class, there would be a 50/50 chance of whatever goal being accomplished. This could be a ninja and a chemist 1v1-ing, a soldier capping a flag against an archer, etc.

    Edits:

    This is the definition of CTF. S'pose MCPVP had it right?? And the second vid makes plenty of sense.
    (Cool channel, btw.)
     
    #7 pookeythekid, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
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