Which?

Guys what happened to respecting people's opinions?
NOTE: I have absolutely no problem with criticism, it's just that on the last page of this thread or so, a simple discussion about which class needs a rework the most has pretty much turned into an all-out argument.

BTW, I don't actually get why unlimited cobwebs is a problem. I mean you only get a max of 6, and it takes quite a lot of skill to be able to aim them well (especially when the target is in front of you).

 

5?

agree

 

Dwarf has never been changed in any way and yet only has 13% of the votes?

 

The bow is indeed still super useful to pyro. When frenzy's not charged, it's still by far the most effective means of lighting a player on fire, and it's darn hard to severely injure or kill a player with a pyro axe if they're not on fire (unless you're pretty good with melee). As I see it, the main reason some say that the bow is no longer a key part of pyro is that it's overshadowed by the now much more powerful frenzy mode. (I'm aware that you're comparing it to the old pyro, but this is more toward the argument of whether it's too powerful or not.)

In maybe eight out of ten cases, activating frenzy mode is basically as effective as an instakill. When you're capping, you can't say it's not frustrating* to fail to dodge a frenzied pyro 98% of the time because not even steaking can effectively help you avoid death--seriously, try steaking twice (necessary to avoid 2-hit kill after the first hit) while on fire, running away from the rest of the defense, and blocking assassins, all within half of a second (delay between first and second pyro hits). I'll just leave dwarves out of the equation for this one.

* I'm not saying CTF should never be frustrating at times, but this concept kind of sucks for everyone but the pyro.

Still, like archer, pyro is a kind of necessary evil in the flag room, especially when assassins are not present--I'm still leaving dwarves out, here. You need something to counter those chemists and soldiers in the good ol' class triangle, the relationships of which have not changed a bunch. The power of pyro is annoying, yes, but flag rooms tend to fall apart without a pyro's presence. If/when pyro is changed again, limiting its power much farther may just ruin the class entirely.

 

Just because its still useful doesnt mean its needed anymore. The old pyro needed its bow or flint to ignite, now all it needs is to hit someone a few times and can ignite them for 5 seconds in 360 degrees 3 block radius taking half their health instantly then taking out half of their health or more in one hit, then 5 second cooldown, repeat. Old pyro had to use bow which could be dodged, with the pyro now you need to kill it before it hits you 4-5 times and ignites.

Pyro has 6 steak, armor, diamond axe, and anyone that doesnt have terrible ping can absolutely destroy with axe alone.
The pro pyros dont use only axe because they know how cheap it is and rather do the old fashioned way.

Pyros frenzy is easy to use and easy to get again. Pyro can decimate an onslaught of enemies in 1 frenzy compared to having to rely on getting them hit with the bows 1 block fire radius.

I would call that making it more op.

Note that I do not want anymore classes nerfed(except for ninjas enderpearl, god i hate ghost/prem cappers), id rather have classes buffed in ways that way they all are op, instead of nerfing them slowly into necro territory.

 

I'm not calling you bias because you are defending your main, you are giving a debate and I am happy to have the honor of debating someone who isnt full of themselves like myself, muffles, or creux.

I know a pyro/chemist/ninja/medic/assassins can easily kill a pyro, but im not talking about noobs playing the pyros, as there arent that many noobs that have pyro. 90% of the pyros are competent and know what they are doing, so its still annoyin af.

I've been on mcpvp before the 2 eras of pyros nerfs, the bow having to be pulled back to shoot a fire arrow, and now frenzy. I can safely say instakill does give a slightly easier kill then frenzy, but frenzy is easier to use, easy to get, and a small cooldown.

I dont enjoy debates due to my stubbornness, but I do respect you able to give me a legitimate debate without feeling the need to insult my intelligence.

 

I mean, byzantine is a ping god. He could be mage and still kill someone with melee(you cannot deny this). Pro ninjas against pro pyros normally win unless they are hit by fire arrow.

That does not mean pyros frenzy isnt more op then old instakill, as most of the time the pyro has help and assistance, so a pro person dies most of the time.

I have no need to "rip you apart", i just enjoy our debate.

 

Lol. This was fun

 

please don't attempt to sound reasonable when you can't resist calling people out so you feel superior to them after giving an argument which consisted of nothing but reiteration, deflection and personal attacks.

as I stated earlier, i would be happy to have a legitimate debate if you attempted to raise points. your reply was then "im going to be the better person and stop arguing", but yet you continue to insist on calling me out, which directly contradicts your attempts at sounding mature.

do you want to start a "legitimate debate", or are you just flaming me and creux for no good reason?

 

Good for you :3

@TheMaelstromsEye I would advise that you stop mentioning iMuffles entirely in this thread, unless you have a legitimate topic to discuss with him. I'm not singling you out for any reason other than the fact that iMuffles was the last one to post, which means you can now end the conflict entirely. (Don't reply to this, either.)

So back on topic (even tho I have basically nothing to add):
@WhiskeRRs I'd say ninja vs pyro is determined almost entirely by the pyro's ability to steak quickly, then land a couple hits on the ninja. I'll admit (even tho I don't have a whole lot of pride to defend here ), I, for example, am pretty bad at watching my health bar, and when I do I always think that I can land the kill blow before I take time to steak. And then I end up dead pretty quickly. This isn't just with pyro, I'll even do this with heavy.

 

Whut about meh, when I had a sick day and got over 6,000 kills in 7 hours :3

 

I'm just going to back STQ up here in that you have to be good at pyro to be effective with it. Because I'm not used to how pyro works, and how fast pyro gets destroyed by every freakin class, I got completely destroyed in the DF vs RR match. I'm decent at pvp, but because I didn't know how to use pyro, I was pretty bad.

 

Can we get ninja sword back up to sharp 6 please

 

xcuse you, jedi support is very effective :3