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stop nerfing you racists

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by iMuffles, Jun 28, 2016.

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  1. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    TL;DR: Nerfs are fine but balance it out with buffs. Less class ability = more PVP-oriented gameplay = slower, objectively worse gameplay.

    Between the previous soldier-pyro-chemist nerf update, and the recent tweaks, I'm sure we can all agree that there have been far more class nerfs than buffs. And yes, while making overpowered classes weaker is certainly the easiest route to go for game balance, it isn't ideal for a game of CTF's nature.

    Part of the appeal of this game is that the winner or loser of any fight is determined primarily by the class counter system, and not by ping. There aren't a lot of PVP games in which me, a 250ms loser, can fight someone with less than 50 and come out on top. This is why me and many others have stuck to CTF - it's not entirely about ping and "PVP skill", it's how well you use your class abilities and which opponents you choose to fight.

    This same reasoning applies to those who just prefer a different style of PVP, and prefer ranged combat or a glass cannon like ninja or assassin, to hitting things over and over with heavy. A lot of the fun of playing ninja, assassin or pyro is that you can kill enemies extremely quickly, but it's somewhat balanced out because you can be easily killed too. Removal of instakills, as is planned, is a fantastic way of slowing gameplay down and ruining the appeal of certain classes.

    Excessively (and almost exclusively) nerfing classes steers the game away from class-based fights towards PVP/ping based fights, which leads to another problem: in an objective game like CTF, gameplay should be fast-paced to allow all players to be taken out easily, especially defenders and flagcarriers. The more emphasis you put on PVP by nerfing class abilities, the slower the game becomes. I'm sure no one wants a CTF where two soldiers grab the flags in the first minute and the remaining 19 are spent trying and failing to recover because your class abilities cannot take out soldier's class abilities.

    As a somewhat unrelated note, I'm also very unhappy with the "2 clicks for frenzy" change for pyro. The fact that soldier needs a nerf a lot more than pyro does, and the fact that soldier has been retroactively buffed again aside, there's a difference between a nerf for a class ability and an annoyance for the player. Mechanically nothing much changes, but it's just so bothersome and irritating to play. I'd encourage whoever thought of and/or approved this decision to add a similar "two click" mechanic to every class (two charge ups for archer bow, two clicks to wallclimb, two clicks to throw potions, etc) and see how they like it.
     
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  2. pandanielxd

    pandanielxd its panda daniel

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    the 2 clicks for pyro is bc peeps accidently clicked there axe instead of steak, that is not a nerf nor a buff js
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Ninsanity

    Ninsanity Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

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    I was about to make this thread after the little rant we had XD

    I completely agree that just nerfing does ruin the game and how it is played. A good game like this needs to be centered around one spot where it is powerful, but not op or up. To do this, nerfs AND buffs are needed to keep all the classes balanced. For example, LoL has many champions (similar to classes) and each has their roles and counters. They get nerfed and buffed continuously and are centered around one spot of balanced that suits the game and its mechanics. If a class goes under that balance, they get buffed, and if they go over that balance, they get nerfed. Just nerfing to one level will change how people play the game drastically, but without changing the mechanics of the game, just nerfing ruins the game.
     
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  4. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    Intentional or not, it's a nerf and it's just annoying in general. If that's the real reason it should be reverted if enough people want it to be.

    I sometimes unintentionally wallclimb. Let's add two right clicks for a wallclimb, shall we?
     
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  5. Quarrelt

    Quarrelt Genetic co-leader | team!

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    I mean, I got annoyed with accidentally using my frenzy, especially in matches - and I see it happen all the time in regular play, and complained about. If you have an alternative suggestion, please, by all means, share it. (@iMuffles)
     
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  6. TomD53

    TomD53 Well-Known Member

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    I have to kinda agree with the whole ping thing though, as 70% of the time I fail to steal a flag thanks to some heavy with less than 50ms that takes little kb. It's annoying and just down to connection.
     
  7. _Enderfire1602

    _Enderfire1602 Well-Known Member

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    Give this sick lad a medal.
     
  8. TheMaelstromsEye

    TheMaelstromsEye Well-Known Member

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    Sadly in this day everyone wants changes to the classes either nerfs or buff, then complain about the nerf or buff immediately. The new update is an example, we should be happy the staff did anything at all and listened to us.

    This servers community is extremely hypocritical and the staff knows this. I myself am extremely upset ghost capping wasnt removed.
     
  9. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    This is not new.
     
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  10. TheMaelstromsEye

    TheMaelstromsEye Well-Known Member

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    I meant to say we are still. But yes, this is not new, and thats why the staff dont regularly ask us for rework ideas.
     
  11. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    I think a separate item to activate could work, but ideally I'm pretty sure Nom could get the drop key to activate it.
     
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  12. Sayan

    Sayan Well-Known Member

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    This Dareub Lingstorm man is such a God at mixing soldier hate into his pointless threads!
     
  13. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    excuse me this thread is probably more important than your existence
     
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  14. Sayan

    Sayan Well-Known Member

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    Wow muffle that hurt my feeling
     
  15. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    sory evan it will not happen again
     
  16. Quarrelt

    Quarrelt Genetic co-leader | team!

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    Drop key is already wait up. Wouldn't having a second item still be the same/take the same time as double clicking. Since you'd have to hotkey, click, hotkey back?
     
  17. BAWSS5

    BAWSS5 Well-Known Member

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    I am a racist and I approve this message
     
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  18. AriesRam10

    AriesRam10 Old MCPVP'er

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    I agree for this post completely. (I'm ignoring that little part about Pyro)

    Stop talking about ****ing Pyro though, I dont give a **** about Pyro.. That may have been discussed but if i'm not mistaken (@iMuffles) this thread is more about the increased nerfs and the decreased buffs.

    So @Quarrelt I would love to hear what you have to say on the main topic of the post rather then the secondary one which could only so obviously induce flame is followed.

    Also, if I may @TheMaelstromsEye I don't think this community attitude is bad at all. We want a change, then we get that change and we want another change. Yeah, that's how things go. You cant just make something perfect. One change is going to change anther. Now, will somone be upset with a change? Yeah, will someone be happy? Yep.. Nothing is perfect.

    To the staff, this is what I would like to say. Dont try and make a game Meta. Rotate buffs and nerfs and let the game Meta make itself.
     
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  19. Quarrelt

    Quarrelt Genetic co-leader | team!

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    @AriesRam10. My new outlook on change is simple but, sadly doesn't agree with most other people. I like to experiment. Now, that doesn't mean I just go around asking every single idea posted to be implemented, especially because of the reaction I know they would get. Changing big things at a time can create a huge chain reaction that this community isn't ready for. With the small update and the pyro change forever ago, I was interested to see the communities reaction to experimenting with things, willing to try them and not being paranoid that it would never change again. Since it didn't go that well, eh.. buffing to match, I just don't have an opinion.

    I'm open to it, because I like abilities, but I rarely see a buff suggestion that isn't reverting a nerf we did, like ninjas sword (please don't bring up Necro, we get it). Most changes are because people want the thing changed (medic healing, instant kill, solider wall climb etc...) and don't usually suggest a buff to another class because then we hear "it's a band-aid fix because they don't want to fix the actual problem).
    -Elf
    -Medic cooldown
    -Mana
    -Dwarf
    -Etc...
    I don't want any of those things I mentioned drastically changed to be honest, but like I said, I'm more detached so if it's not what I want, oh well it'll get changed, reverted, nerfed, buffed whatever. So if you have ideas to buff specific things instead of saying "we need buffs," I'd be happy to listen, can't speak for everyone, though.
     
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  20. AriesRam10

    AriesRam10 Old MCPVP'er

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    Haha that part made me laugh. Out of fairness I dont think I've asked for Necro to be reverted

    If I may, my suggestion to that would be. If it is purely to test it and experimenting with it make it more known. I may have missed a post or two so I may look uninformed right now. But just going off Nom's
    tweak post I had no idea they were added to be tested? I have every intention to believe that they were here to stay and never be changed again. (Maybe a test server?)
     
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