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The CTF Refereeing Rant.

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Lewka, Jul 16, 2016.

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  1. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    It took me a while to decide on whether I should start this rant or not. It’s only recent matches that has given me a ‘go ahead’ to write this along with a few players’ opinions on referees in general. I kindly want everyone to note that I am not directing this at any particular moderator on CTF, as this generally applies to the refereeing system and in some way all of them simultaneously. I am directing this at the flawed process of refereeing this gamemode.


    I’ll divide this thread into different parts concerning different topics to minimise the length of the thread.


    I’d like to assume that most of you reading this thread have had an experience with teams in CTF. That being said, I’d also take it into assumption that you’ve all at least played a couple of matches too. In the event that you haven’t, there are two types of matches (excluding squads) - Official and Unofficial. In officials members only can play and require the use of a referee. These referees, or in CTF’s case Mods, have to be present in every Official match. They make sure the rules are followed and inflict consequences upon anyone who goes against the rules.


    Here’s the catch though : Mods in CTF almost never inflict consequences upon rule breakers unless they were trash talking other members. Of all the matches I’ve played in and watched from POVs, almost never has there been a case where the mods took action. It was always a case of , “While you have just capped I am going to have to give a warning to [Team] for [Rule broken].” or “Warning to [Team] for [Rule broken].” In a nutshell, warning, warning, warning. Not a single time have I ever seen that a ref has set back a cap or force restored a flag for breaking a game changing rule. Before you consult me with “Referees do take action like this” I am going to ask you when was the last time you witnessed this? A few years back when the Paladin class was a thing?


    Before diving into solutions and ranting about how the refereeing system is trash, it’s important to understand why such things are happening, and the answer can be given in one sentence. The referees in CTF are also Mods. This is probably the biggest reason as to why the refereeing system is flawed.


    Referees are generally viewed as unlikeable people in the sporting and gaming communities around the world. They keep any match/game in order and are the officials to keep the rules intact. They normally receive heavy criticism if they take an action and when they don’t see an illegal action. Needless to say hence it is a tough job to be a ref. They can be sometimes seen as biased and heavily disliked by major groups of people.


    A moderator is the last person you would expect to be heavily disliked or criticised. While it may be true that CTF mods are criticised with every change they make to CTF, it is undoubtedly futile to think that any of them would be disliked for taking action in a match. It is against a mod’s reputation to be disliked and criticised. It is part of a referee’s reputation to be criticised and disliked. Mixing those two roles into one in the same is a very large problem, as it would affect the way the moderators are seen as staff members and also the way they are seen as refereeing.


    Because a Referee and a Moderator usually have different personalities, it is also a difficulty in getting newer referees that actually want to referee matches, simply because they have to go through the process of becoming a mod to gain the privilege of refereeing. Given that it would take them at least 2 months to get a moderator rank and finally get the chance to referee a match, they then would have to still be liked by the community to maintain their rank to referee, hence why little if none action is taken when a rule is broken.


    Another thing to note is that referees can make mistakes often. It should be noted that the CTF staff are too afraid to take action in the event that they make a mistake. This is not natural for a referee. Trying to be perfect and not doing anything is the worst type of refereeing. Obviously calling out broken rules every 5 seconds isn’t good refereeing either, but trying to be perfect and accurate with your calling out for rule breaking isn’t good.


    The answer is probably a bit vague, but honestly it saves the mod a lot of hassle and prevents people from disliking them, and finally get someone who would take action and wouldn’t mind being criticised for refereeing. Establish a god damn referee rank. While we all know giving the CTF staff suggestions that most of the community likes is utterly useless, just as with every other suggestion in the Server ideas section, this rank should be essential for CTF matches.


    Obviously don’t make it an easy to get rank, otherwise it would be very stupid and could result in a lot of consequences, so these are the following steps that should be taken to making a Referee Rank.


    -Create a Subsection in Teams called Referee Applications.


    -Apply the terms and conditions to be that the Referee has to be mature and respectful and non biased, meaning they shouldn’t be in any team (before you criticise me for this one, just remember that any biased referee first starts being biased when they start supporting a team and that team loses to another and so on, so it’s best if referees stay out of being part of teams.)


    -CTF staff should review your application and if they deem you responsible enough they grant you the ref rank.


    -The only privileges it contains would be match oriented stuff, such as setting back caps, setting class limits, setting maps and the ability to enter in gamemode 1/2/3.


    -Should the Referee abuse his power with his commands, their rank is revoked.



    With a referee rank, mods won’t any longer have to be restricted to taking only so many actions to the point where they can be disliked, criticised for making mistakes and what not, all in their own free will. A Referee will be able to take the criticism and dislikeness received by teams and it won’t affect their reputation that much, simply because they are doing their job.


    TLDR: Moderators try to be accurate and make sure they aren’t wrong when calling out for a mistake, hence being hesitant, which is not the nature of a referee. In that case a referee rank would be suitable to help future matches and in the event they make a mistake, they do not affect their rank status. Refereeing shouldn't be a privilege for mods only, it should be for anyone who does wish to referee but does not wish to be a mod. Before you say that the referee would have to be either way responsible, they are, otherwise they wouldn't be refereeing official matches.


    unfortunately and most probably, the ctf staff won't even consider this rant and in the end won't listen.
     
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    #1 Lewka, Jul 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  2. Xelia_

    Xelia_ (ノ^ヮ^)ノ *:・゚✧

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    Before I read the post and make judgements on it, I'm going to mention that ranks cannot be server specific. If someone had a ref rank, they'd have it on all of CTF and not just the match server, which is one of the key reasons why ref rank isn't a thing.

    Fun fact, the mods aren't out to get you. We listen to ideas and do consider them. We don't gain anything from ignoring the thoughts of the community.
     
  3. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you shouldn't be prejudice about the post and read it first before you comment about it?

    I'm pretty sure you guys do read over the ideas, but I highly doubt you ever implemented any of some of the best suggestions on the ideas section (Soldier XP suggestion took months if not years to implement). If they aren't out to get the community, i.e most of the players that play this forsaken gamemode, what's the use of the ideas section?

    What is the issue with a rank displaying "REF" instead of "MVP, PRO, VIP, MOD" etc? Why is then the rank "BUILD TEAM" a thing? Also in case you didnt realise, ranks can be server specific, case in point Sheriff rank on wildwest. SoCool21 is a sheriff on wildwest but I do not see his tag popping up on CTF. What's your excuse now, that referees shouldn't be known if they are referees, that only mods should maintain the privilege to referee when it's absolutely flawed?
     
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    #3 Lewka, Jul 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  4. TheMaelstromsEye

    TheMaelstromsEye Well-Known Member

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    Inb4 this is moved to ctf team section. Also when you dont care about teams

    Build team are part of the staff, they have to do a staff app. Referee rank could literally backfire so hard if you think about it. The mods are the only ones who should maintain it because this community would abuse that power incredibly if they had it instead of the mods.
     
  5. November

    November november

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    but jmod is server specific?? i thought when someone first gets jmod it is only on the gamemode they applied for at first.
     
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  6. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    #REFRANK

    It's not a very fun fact :///
     
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  7. Lugia_

    Lugia_ support =D

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    @gamren said wild west is also server specific. hm.
     
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  8. Avivox

    Avivox Well-Known Member

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  9. Ninsanity

    Ninsanity Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

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    Yes, because if ref rank becomes a thing, brawl will give it to everybody. Getting ref rank would follow a similar process to build rank. And furthermore, I think a good thing if ref rank happens is to have those refs record the matches they ref, to be able to have proof of abuse/rule breakers. (just like how staff needs to record hackers before banning).

    Also, to those saying that "it can be server specific, ex wild west or jmod", what xelia is saying is that there cant be a rank for just the match server, but for the whole ctf server. (Not ctf v hg, but regular v match).

    Having said that, I don't know why that will be an issue in the first place. If a person is trusted with ref rank, they would not abuse it, specifically on the regular ctf servers. If they did, pretty sure brawl has staff regulations, etc. So just saying we can't have a rank for the whole ctf server, I don't think that should be a limiting factor.
     
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  10. Decelvice

    Decelvice Well-Known Member

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    on server specific rank point:
    IIRC ctf servers are the same "server type" as normal ctf games, meaning that you cannot apply a rank just to the match server and not the rest of the "casual" servers

    whereas you can be jmod on build and not hg because build is a different server type to hg

    @Lugia_ @November @gamren

    edit: im silly and wrong hehe
     
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    #10 Decelvice, Jul 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  11. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone is responsible enough for being a Referee though. Build rank is different
     
  12. Decelvice

    Decelvice Well-Known Member

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    i deliberately didn't express any view on whether there should be a rank anyway: just thought i would clear up that specific point
     
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  13. obikenobi21

    obikenobi21 Delta Force Jedi

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    Just train our current mods how to ref, we can't expect them to be amazing refs just because they're mods. So we need to figure out the best way to ref a CTF match, have our mods all learn that and hopefully this improves. (not to say mods don't know how to ref, but laike a system would be nice)
     
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  14. gamren

    gamren Well-Known Member

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    This still doesn't handle the main problem, which is that there isn't always someone to setup/ref matches. Sure, it would be helpful for the refs to be trained, but I'm pretty sure most of them already know what they are doing. The problem at hand is that a lot of problems are missed since there is usually either one mod reffing, limiting their capabilities to spot out rule breaks, or not a single ref at all.

    This has been a problem on multiple occasions, not being able to get a mod for matches even when asked for ahead of time or planned very early. There is a spreadsheet which teams have an obligation to fill out for matches, and mods also have an obligation to signup for matches which they can referee. That was at least how it worked when I was a rep for BK.

    And yes, mods have lives, which we respect, but still many matches have to be pushed back or made unof due to mods not being able to make it. There have been multiple occasions of this. We are hungry for a solution, and yes, there are risks of creating a ref rank, but what other ideas are there? The ref rank will fix the problem of not enough mods, would possibly help handle the problem that nobody was watching the other flag carrier in which a rule break possibly occurred. We need solutions, which most of the people who are against the ref rank don't seem to want to input.

    Lemme just state this as obvious as I can.

    There aren't enough people to be able to setup matches, mods have real lives which we respect.
    We need a solution to be able to add more possible referees to help clean up this problem.
    We need a solution.

    So please, if you are against the ref rank, offer up a solution. Myself and others are tired of sitting around as this scenario roles over and over multiple times, with a majority of the committee offering little to no input. For the longest time we have asked for this problem to be handled and yet here we still are.
     
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  15. Sayan

    Sayan Well-Known Member

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    I did not read any of this but nice rant Luka c:
     
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  16. DurationPvP

    DurationPvP Member

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    Good luck with ****
     
  17. Doctor_Noah

    Doctor_Noah Well-Known Member

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    ...when whill we be able to caputre our flag in peace? thank you
     
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  18. 5ive_Head

    5ive_Head Well-Known Member

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    ctf is peaceful?!?!?!? Noah i beg to differ but CTF is a GAME of ACTION and killing people...............................................................................................
     
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  19. TheMaelstromsEye

    TheMaelstromsEye Well-Known Member

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    No ctf is full of toxic, unfriendly, backstabbing, corrupt people. The only good person i can say 100% shouldnt be here is chocolate because he shouldnt have to deal with us. Anyone who thinks ctf is peaceful needs to be slapped with a frying pan
     
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  20. 5ive_Head

    5ive_Head Well-Known Member

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    EDIT: nvm not even gonna say anything, but tbh if ref rank isn't the best solution we NEED another solution, several people have been asking, several people have been waiting.

    Is the server type thing located in code so you can't access it? If so, Nom or anybody that has access to code could add ref rank to both ctf servers but check for the server gamemode or whatever you use for /play. If /play [gamemode] is in the code, but not in the right plugin just import Brawl's jar into the ctf code, then you should be able to import the methods to get the server gamemodes used in /play. If /play doesn't check what gamemode you are in, whatever you used for /friends should, because the lore of the head changes to the server that your friends are on. If it's however not in the code, it shouldn't be that hard to do. If instead it's in a config/permissions file or database (assuming it's not - based on the difficulty you say there is), just add a couple new lines. idk why this is a problem this should be pretty simple to do imo.

    I also like the idea of being forced to record the match so if you have the ref rank, that way if people are being too biased towards one team, then there is evidence, and if recording fails or something some error occurs and you get a ref rank strike and if you get 3 strikes you cannot ref anymore and similar to the CTF team strike system if you fail to send the video to the mods / make it public you lose your rank for 1 month from being able to ref.

    EDIT #2: I lied I felt like saying stuff...
     
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    #20 5ive_Head, Jul 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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