Idea Please remove bowspamming

You complain of bowspam whilst having a history of magespam, which is 100x worse. nice.

 

Becomes active as soon as he disbands his team because inactivity.

"Nice."

I think that archer instakill is necessary for recovery, usually depending on the map though. The removal of kb would be pretty nice since bowspamming is rather annoying. I also think the xp bar is nice. Instead of removing instakill, maybe implement both/something similar, like having arrows not deal the immense kb , and the bow needs to be pulled back all the way to deal the instakill (just like pyro bow and fire). Both at the same time could handle bowspam, while at the same time toning down the insane power of archer, making it more of a precise class if you want to say that.

Another idea could have it that archer does objective damage, like how archer does additional damage to chemist. Take away archer instakill effect on everything BUT flagcarriers. This way, archer will be able to keep the recovery capabilities that is drastically needed. With this nerf, possibly give it something cool, like a grappling hook. Grappling hooks are always cool Archer would be pretty weak after that besides recovery, so move some stuff about its kit all around. I'm not exactly the best with classes but hey ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

-teamhops.
-trashtalks while applying for mod.
Nice.

Honestly you have no idea about my team, so if I were you I'd stay out of it as I've never taken team ****talking lightly. I was not the extreme dictator who disbanded my team, it was a mutual decision so you're basically insulting 10 people in the community who you wish to represent as mod. I'm inactive on ctf because I actually do things with my life instead of playing a kids block game as yourself and never was as active on TC as I had hoped and was going to leave anyway. Now get back to the discussion as ochemistkippy requested.

 

I'm not trying to trash talk here, I'm simply trying to defend a friend that you felt the need to call out on his thread. If you want to call people out, you should expect to be fired back upon. That's cool if you have real life events going on, I understand that. I also have other things going on, but if you want to unnecessarily call people out, don't pull the victim card when you recieve some heat.
Also, I actually continued my previous comment to be relative to the thread, as I am about to yet again, unlike your hypocritical self.
And with that, a final note to you;

Spoiler: To Snowbreak

If you want to continue this discussion, then shoot me a pm either on the forums or on skype and I'll be more than happy to continue.

Archer is a key class on recovery. Most maps it is a necessary class for the role of recovery, and removing the instakill ability on it would make recovery insanely difficult. It definitely needs a rework I think instead of a nerf, and should keep a heavy role as a class of recovery. The removal of bowspam and a objective nerf, as I explained in my previous post, may be quite interesting.

 

I agree that mage spamming is a problem, but that doesn't mean bowspamming isn't. They are both incredibly annoying and need to be fixed.

 

Where the f*ck did that come from?

Honestly, you can't call this bow spamming if it's the only decent weapon in the archer arsenal. The reason why it annoys everyone is probably because it's too damn effective (to solve this, just remove the punch).

The same goes for "mage spamming". You can't call it spam if it's the ONLY weapon they have. "Don't damage spam", then what the f*ck else am I supposed to use for damage besides a spell named "damage spell?

Seriously, this is like calling out a heavy for "sword spamming"; It's the only weapon they have, you can't really call it spam if it's the only option available.

 

People are annoyed at the fact that Archer has a ranged instakill that can rapid fire. Bowspam is also just annoying to fight, especially when the bow has Punch I. It was worse with Punch II, which also contradicts the statement that Archer wasn't touched since its release. @SpookDog_

 

If you were trying to kill this archer as a mage, I don't see why they wouldn't bow spam. Mage utilizes ranged attacks, so the only real hope of survival for the archer is to continually fire the bow and hope the mage leaves.

 

Or you can run. Mage isn't even really affected by archer bow spam since it doesn't have to be close by, unless the archer is trying to get close (with a meelee weapon keep in mind). Bow spam *usually* is relevant to classes/players using that class that are trying to get close and beat them up. I would imagine a mage would not be bothered by bow spam greatly, heck I doubt most archers would even try to bow spam the mage once he got in range.

 

How does 1 simpily mage spam LOL?

 

I think Necro Needs a rework to.

I think the BowSpam should just simply be limited by an XP bar just like Chemist and Mage. Forget about Punch II, I, or even XX. Just an XP bar should do.

 

See, that doesn't work either. Mages tend to freeze all those who flee from his immortal mageness, then stand in front of the archer so they can't run back to spawn. Seeing how I've been in this situation way too many times, I know that when a mage gets within 10 blocks, death is more of an inevitability. The only method that has allowed me to survive 1/10 times is using the bows punch (some would call this spam, but as I've said before, it's not spam if it's your primary weapon) to get the mage possibly into headshot range, or to make killing me not worth the effort.

If an archer is attempting to charge a mage with a sword, then they are obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Why?
1). Mage kills archer in three damage shots, as long as there is no steak involved
2). The mage can just keep the archer back with lightning, hit them with the hoe melee/damage spell combo, freeze them, light them on fire, etc
3). Mage has an infinite health pool, archer does not. Even if this archer manages by some miracle to land a couple blows, the mage just heals and blasts the archer away with any number of its' spells.

Honestly, you say "they can just close the gap" like it's no big deal, and oh how I wish that were true. I feel like this argument is a pointless one since it's a mage main and an assassin main arguing with an archer main about what archer can and can't do; I think I of all people would know how much mage simply dominates archer in midfield, there's really no way for an archer to counter a mage without using the bow at some point or getting lucky enough to be helped by some of the 5 teammates who care.

Good point, this is true. However, it's a pretty sh*tty idea to weigh your odds of survival, as an archer, on the off chance that the opposing mage might suck.

 

Am I the only one here who thinks that the fact that recovery would become significantly more difficult without having an extremely obnoxious (and OP) ability is a major problem?

We can talk about how instakills are necessary (to the current meta) until we're blue in the face and that's not going to do anything to further the greater discussion about how to make CTF better. It's really not. We know instakills, especially headshots, are the most powerful mechanic in game, are nowhere near balanced (and trying to "balance" them only makes instakill abilities needlessly difficult to use), and tend to require equally or almost equally powerful counters so they don't dominate the game (i.e. Dwarf v. Assassin, Pyro v. Archer), which is partially why CTF is in the state that it's in. I don't buy any argument against instakills being OP or the most OP thing in CTF. You show me an ability that can do more damage than full health against any opponent and I'll become a believer. This stuff is not complicated.

Instakills have to be removed and replaced otherwise we're not going to address the underlying problem of the meta, which is that it heavily relies on these broken mechanics (headshots, assassin and dwarf instakills) to hold everything together. That's a horrible way to design a gamemode. @LordCh4os and I have already suggested a true damage/bleed rework (the target is also slowed for 1.5-2 seconds upon being hit) to do this and I included that rework as part of a larger rework of CTF which you can view here.

As for bowspam, I think removing the punch I is the best way to deal with it rather than going all the way with an XP bar. Bowspam is annoying (as all spam is) but the punch makes it intolerably worse for two reasons: 1) it makes getting into close range more of a problem than it should be, and 2) it's possible to get knocked back into headshot range and then instakilled (or knocked off a cliff and killed by fall damage, etc.)

Get rid of the punch but leave bowspam alone.

 

https://www.brawl.com/threads/61049/