Idea Tv back at it again with the pyro buffs! and chemist and heavy nerfs xd

I agree completely. Not only does pyro not feel threatening for long enough, but it's also laughably frail for a defensive based class. Also, the strength buff is ridiculous. There isn't much incentive to run any other offensive core or defensive core than buffed heavy. Pair that heavy core with a medic, and entire flagrooms or attack waves can be wiped by 3 people. Although, I think if heavy were to be more tanky, then it could receive a buff to sustain. Elf chews through heavy's steak with pure element.

 

I like all these ideas except chemist, there's only a few chemists that can take out a flagroom will ninja, pyros etc.

 

I agree with the heavy iron sword and removing strength. With giving pyro a chain chest plate, I think it's fine because it will be harder to kill without strength, so why make it even harder to kill? Also give medic sharp 1!! XD

 

I think chemist should get more armor because chemist gets 2 shot by heavy and every other class does3+ hearts

 

I disagree with this idea overall. There are many reasons to it.

1. HEAVY: Heavy has been an untouched class for years. Removing it's Diamond sword would remove the purpose of the class. It's called Heavy for a reason. This class is multipurpose, it's for offence or defense. Me being a Heavy main, I think that would unbalance the class. Why try to make this class like the Kit Pvp version "Brute". Clearly Heavy is fine, and the recent crit change from 150% to 125% really did show some difference. @LeDoener is a good example of a Pyro that can kill Heavies, and still be at 1-3 steak. It's all about being able to counter the class. Frenzy does 7-8 hearts. A hit while on fire is 2-4, two hit kill bro.
2. CHEMIST: Chemist... needs a... nerf?... Bro, a heavy will be able to kill a Chemist in 2-4 shots. A Pyro could destroy a chemist while on fire since the Chemist armour isn't the strongest. What's a buff without adding strength to it. If you were to take out Strength I from the class, that's like taking their power from them. You're basically turning Chemist into a way weaker version of Soldier than can't climb walls. Plus, damage pots only do 2-3 hearts. The cooldown also limits to just 3 pots being able to be thrown at once. Poison also just doe 3-5 hearts. Or 0, depending how long you get hit. Plus, a ninja would send Chemist to hell. Take @Jul13n for example, he's a good Chemist, but in Defy vs MI/Emoji, there was instances where a ninja easily could kill him. On Blackout for example, @TheAceOfSpades_ was able to get him AS NINJA. I am totally against nerfing Chemist.
3. PYRO: Clearly, Pyro is a class that is difficult to master. Since, it was reworked recently. From being an instakill, to making it 2-hit kill if a person doesn't know how to steak. If you think about it, there is great Pyro mains that survive Ninja/Chemist/Soldier/Heavy's. @ILikeu , @LeDoener , @Vezenite (When he played Pyro), @pedruu_ , @Bluely , @Xelia_ , @Hugmaster , the list goes on. Thats just a few examples of people who can not just survive Heavies and other classes, but kill their surroundings. If you think about it, the frenzy+a quick hit when they are on fire kills the person fast. @Spexon_O1 has demonstrated recently in Defy matches that being quick with frenzy, and hitting, will result it a 2 hit kill. If you learn to tank, you learn to Pyro.
4. MEDIC: The one thing in this thread I want so bad, is Sharp I on Medic. It not only will improve the chances of Medic's surviving, but it will also bump up to how much a Medic can defend themselves. Take @puhdgy for example. She is a great Medic, but since Sharp I was taken away, she has to deal with constantly getting targetted. It's hard to kill **** without having a weapon that actually does damage and not just 1-2 hearts of damage. The counter argument to that is "Medics purpose is to support." No, thats part of their purpose. Medic is a class that should be good for capping, and supporting. Sharp I would clearly balance out the class, Ninja got sharp V, why not give Medic back it's Sharp I? There clearly isn't anything that would go wrong with adding that back. Even if it means taking away a Steak for Medic, it would clearly be worth it.

 

An increased number of speed potions doesn't compensate for the lack of strength I because none of those potions have a substitute effect equivalent to removing strength I. All this means is that you can move around really fast for a longer period of time (with buffs) but will do substantially less damage. This seems like a pretty extreme fix to me since the only reason why you're suggesting strength I be removed is because of buffed heavies. Strength I on buffed heavy isn't the problem. It's the broken critical hits (Heavies 2 shotting Ninjas without buffs etc.) that are. Buffs are one one of the main ways to get in and out of flagrooms or recover the flag (if your team doesn't have an assassin) as well as taking out defending pyros, ninjas, dwarves, and so on and that's because of the strength boost you get from them. I don't see why this should be made harder to do by removing that because it's extra strong on Heavy.

Definition of tank according to Google: a heavy armored fighting vehicle carrying guns and moving on a continuous articulated metal track. (literal definition, I know, but it's good enough to extrapolate)

By itself Heavy isn't a tank. It's a cross between a tank and an ad carry. Sure it deals a lot of damage and has a lot of armor but it has a low health pool without a Medic around. Any class that does high burst damage (Archer, Pyro, Elf) or high sustained damage (Ninja, Dwarf, Mage, other Heavies) can counter it. If you want to turn it into a real tank then you not only need to nerf the damage output but increase its sustain well beyond 3 steaks.

+1

What was the old duration?

It doesn't already have fire resistance? That's bogus. +1

Suggestion: Pyros can still teamburn (i.e. lighting red team spawn on fire). This needs to be fixed.

 

I used them as examples. That a pyro can easily survive a heavy/chemist if you can tank. Honestly, changing the weapon on heavy isn't needed. "Soldier: All Iron", "Medic: All Gold", "Archer: All Chain and a Stone Sword". Also, Strength I is basically why buff's are called "buff's", people would just call Speed, Speed. Why take away Strength I? It doesn't just help heavy, it helps anything, every class. Plus, Heavy has always been like this and people are complaining just now. Heavy and Chemist are just fine. All you have to do is reduce the crit on heavy more, from 125% to 110% or 100%.

Plus, it's no fun playing a class thats called "HEAVY", without it being a HEAVY class. Changing the damage output just because you die to heavies isn't a valid reason - _-, plus Mage, Elf, Assassin, Ninja, Pyro, Soldier, Chemist, Engineer, Necro, Archer counter heavy in atleast one way.

I mentioned it. Because, If you think about it, frenzy would kill almost anything by hitting straight after the frenzy. Your points and "nerf's" wouldn't affect the balance of the classes in any way-shape-or-form.

 

Disagree with all the proposed changes. Points mentioned already by other people.

 

let pyro deal more dmg to heavy and leave everything else how it is... lol

 

Agreed. Strength I is way too effective. It's nutty how many kills you can get as buffed Heavy (which is why I used to play it all the time). But why not, instead of removing strength I from the pots, buff other classes (not actual potion buffs but making, for instance, Elf's water, earth, and pure elements more useful/powerful) and fix the broken critical hits? You could deal with the problem of buffed heavy/soldier/chemist but without dumbing down the meta in the process.

Sure it's still effective but that's not what the conversation was about, which was damage output. That's going to be a lot lower without a 130% (something like that) damage boost even if you factor in crits.

Wouldn't 20% damage reduction (in addition to full diamond armor) be more powerful than one extra steak (or 4 more full hearts of sustain)?

-1 that burn time is too long. Escaping the flagroom is already hard enough with frenzy mode; a longer burn-time, subsequently greater crowd control, and much higher damage output (since Pyro deals increased damage to targets who are on fire) would make this unreasonably difficult to do (and could also increase reliance on ghosting by Ninjas).

 

Hello,
As a chemist main who is literally garbage at every other class (maybe even chemist too), removing the 1.6x damage for the chemist itself isn't needed. Perhaps make it drinkable instead and remove the useless AF slowness/mining fatigue pots???
For heavy, a nerf isn't needed. What Jay said (too lazy to reply and stuff, typing in bed) is true, it's the default class and hasn't been touched in years. It honestly shouldn't be. More counters are needed. I don't have many suggestions here but just buff other classes.
Medic: I rarely play this class for killing. However, I do recommend that the sharpness 1 be restored because the sword is about as good as a stick. What I think needs to be removed if that's added is the passive regeneration, as well as a steak. The ability to see opponent's health is already a massive advantage because when I'm low, I see if my opponent is near death. If they are, I run a bit, then turn back. If not, I run, making sure to spam those OP cobwebs behind... Speaking of cobwebs, medic should NOT be a capping class. All you need to do is get out, throw down some webs, and you're fine. By the time everyone manages to get out of the cobwebs, you're already 20 blocks ahead and have regenerated all the health you lost in the flag room, except for a steak or two. What I find really different from capping as medic than capping as soldier or chemist is that when a ninja gets you low and you're out of healing, by the time they make their way back, as a medic you're perfectly able to handle them while you're screwed if you're another class.
Tbh archer should be nerfed first... (psst -punch, +power, 25+blocks=pure dmg)

 

Most of it sounds fine, my only problem is the heavy thing. Heavy has always been considered the benchmark for balance, and if we're having to nerf it, it suggests that we're not balancing the other classes right