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Where are you getting this information from? I never said i wanted it removed (not like you can remove something that hasn't been added yet). I said i didn't like it and I gave solid reasons. Please pm me if you want to talk about this more but it seems like you don't understand 90% of what i say.

 

I don't think that it's "weird" at all, yes this post has a larger amount of total views; but Gee is a popular player, people talk. Most people know he built a map and a few have contributed slightly to the map themselves; we shouldn't question it just because a lot of people seem to have an opinion on the map.

 

But why your map though? Your map isn't anything special, it doesn't look very aesthetically pleasing and the gameplay looks even worse.

 

I think you misunderstood 90% of my post, I believe that since Gee is such a well known and well respected player that map is getting more attention than maps prior.

 

I'm just fed up with you trying to say 'don't test this map' because you think it sucks. Every map has its flaws, but if you test it out, in map testing, we can change the flaws and make it a better map. Also, most people seem to like this map, so they voted 'yes'. It's been democratically decided that we all would like to see it in action, perhaps not in the new wave, but during map testing especially.

 

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I'd like to address a few of your points:

First of all your assumption (all be it jokingly, but really though) that the "yes" votes are bots are not only offensive to Gee but also all those who did indeed vote "yes" for the map.

"It is primarily flat", It is indeed; many of the maps currently in rotation are and you made this comment suggesting that flat maps aren't good maps???

"There is no theme to the map". Although not explicitly stated in the submission the map does have a theme, the best description would be "Abandoned mining town". Also in this point you stated that the map "diminishes the player's sense of direction", No one can perfectly navigate a new map; time is required for players to know the routes across the map.

"The three bridges in the middle are engineer choke points just waiting to happen". Yes there are 3 bridges, however there are 5 paths across. As you probably know (?) both side bridges can be crossed on top, or underneath; with the under bridges having their entrance further away from the over bridges.

"....An attempt to make the map come off as less flat than it already is. This is made clear by the coal ore on the sides of the map and where it stops rising". Actually the coal ore on the sides is to stop soldier camping.

"Just about everything that is 4 blocks or higher is unreachable if you are not soldier". Ninjas?? Elf?? Also if you have a problem with unreachable soldiers, apparently archer is "OP" so its not game breaking. Also the lack of accessibly was intended to prevent archers from reaching theses apparent OP positions.

"A bunch of barrier blocks in random locations on trees". These are also to diminish the sniping capabilities of archers, notice the majority of these blocks are around the spawn areas, preventing spawn camping.

"Defence is pretty under-powered if it has no home-base advantage (i.e. higher ground...)". The flag is centred on a mound, giving defence the high ground. The exits were designed to prevent ninjas pearling and elf flying away instantly after stealing the flag. Also since the flag room is the same on both sides is it even necessary to have a "home advantage".

"Even with so many flaws (you can say they're subjective flaws, but they are not. This is CTF map-making 101 knowledge)". Once again i'd like to point out how rude and hurtful these comments can come across, i'm sure you're smart enough to express your opinion without being so insolent.

"Yet, all of them have one thing in common: They have posted VERY infrequently, or even never, on the forums!". I'm sorry but i don't see the relevance.

"With his apparent popularity, simply asked a multitude of his friends to vote positively for this map in an attempt to make it seem popular among the CTF community". Once again I'd like to point out how brash this comment is. You're assuming that he asked he friends for yes votes, but a frequent player such as Gee isn't just well known amongst his friends, but with most players. Simply asking people to look at the submission would be enough to get this much attention.

And finally you end your post insinuating that Gee had in some way broken some rule, further insulting him and those who did vote "yes" for this map.

The critiques are welcome, but only if they are put forward in a respectful manner, and I hope the explanations on the areas of concern you have pointed out assist in any further comments and critiques you may wish to put forward (respectfully). XOXO - Nobbyjoe

 

I see your points, but we have to actually try out map testing first. Actions speak louder than words. It may be a lousy map to pvp on, but that's EXACTLY what map testing is for! PROVING that some spots are overpowered, and that some classes can dominate this. If we just sit here and look at it, we can see a million things that could be improved. If we play the map during map testing, you can try out what you looked at and see that way if a spot is indeed (as you first saw/thought) overpowered. Or maybe it's underpowered for a class? Who knows? If we DO it instead of just simply LOOKING at it, we can a lot farther and have more info on what can be changed/removed/added.

*we can get a lot farther

 

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"If you post your map in the forum, you will probably receive some criticism"

@Nightowl As you have missed several key points/ideas I had addressed prior so I will skip to a big one: when used in terms of feedback "criticism" or "constructive criticism" involves pointing out problem areas WITH respect. You don't have to be here to make friends but you're treating people on the forums with a lot of disrespect. Often when criticism is provided in such a manner, people wont take note or ignore the critic (As I will from now on). In order to have your OPINIONS accounted, it may be wise to use "constructive criticism" rather than plain old "criticism" (In my opinion).

 

To be honest, it isnt worth it to argue with him. Hes our resident grouch. Pay him no mind.

As for the map, I like the outline, but some of the world edit/structuring seems a bit off or mechanical. Maybe smoothing it out a bit would help, but that's mostly aesthetic. I'd love to be able to test it and I hope to see this in rotation.

 

Aight. That quote pinged me, so I'm taking a look.

1. Remove all grass and flowers to fix PVP. Everyone complains about PVP in grass, and the varying flower colors create visual distraction. If you want to re-add grass, hand-place it sparingly into corners or in areas players won't be accessing readily. Limit the colors of flowers you use.

Spoiler: visual clutter

2. Make sure that every path is at least 3 blocks high. CTFers run-jump across maps because it's faster. I keep getting snagged on trees and doorways in this map.

Spoiler: low hanging example

3. Remove excessive fencing. They become a soldier weapon because soldiers can hop right over them. Also, excessive structures get in the way of PVP.

4. Clean up the path going straight out of spawn. Players run straight forward the moment they spawn out of habit, make that your path. They don't want to turn immediately right or left upon spawning. It also needs to be visually clear so players can see where you're going.

Those four things should take enough time and make enough gameplay change to start with, I can go further once those are fixed.

oh, also I'm not sure why red and blue are mixed together in the same spot

Spoiler: redblue

Edit: added a couple images

 

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chill everyone
we're working on the map atm
it's already completely different.

give us a bit.

 

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We went through and did the first big round of cleanup on the map. Big focus on removing some clutter and creating clear pathing across the map. Widened the bridges, widened paths, deleted a bunch of stuff, started making a more cohesive map theme.

Spoiler: changes so far

Wider bridges

Cleaner paths

more visual matching

paths make more sense

I might not have time to get on and help much more because work weeks get busy, but keep an eye on this:

Spoiler: purple spot of crosstraffic

Widening the bridge is gonna help that, but it might be good to widen it even more. the map is pretty well protected against archers, so that's a plus, but if anyone can come up with suggestions it'll be helpful.

One good difference between this and Parklife is that the spawns aren't shoved in the far corners. Hopefully that offsets the traffic enough.

I think the map has good potential from this point.

 

I agree with @Nightowl that this map has flaws, may be dominant for soldier and engi. I didn't know about the 'list of requirements' before. Now I do, so yeah. I apologise because I didn't know about this list. I also want to apologise to @GoToBed for bumming his comments. I just thought you guys were like 'don't test it because we don't like it'. See, I didn't know about this requirements list.

 

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