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Idea yggiz's class adjustments

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by yggiz, Apr 29, 2017.

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  1. yggiz

    yggiz Member

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    Okay, I am new to the forums but have been playing CTF on and off for around 4 years now and feel I have a good grasp on how the game functions. So here are my ideas:

    Archer:
    • Increase instakill range to 40 blocks
    • Remove Punch 1
    • Add knockback 1 to the sword
    • Give the archer 8 arrows on kill
    The instakill range nerf make archer take more skill but also awards the player for landing shots.
    The removal of punch makes the class a lot less spammy up close but the knockback allows them to keep their enemies at a distance. Before archer could keep pushing their enemies farther and farther away but this change fixes that.


    Heavy:
    • 10% speed reduction
    • 20% knockback reduction
    This makes the class feel more "heavy".
    Also creates a counter for engineer.

    Medic:
    • Players on full health with items missing will have a red dot next to the hp display, once items are restored it will turn green.
    • Above ideas were from @Miskey
    • Players directly hit with a snowball will gain slowness 2 for 0.75 seconds.
    The dot is a QoL change and will help new medic players have a better understanding of how the class is played.
    The snowballs make medic better at recovering and help make up for the knockback from the snowballs when trying to web an enemy.


    Soldier:
    • Energy regeneration while standing on the ground is 1.5x of current value.
    • Energy regeneration while in the air is half of the current value
    • Wall climb's cost is 80% of current value.
    • 50% damage taken from the flag.
    These changes make it so soldier is much better at carrying the flag and escaping but discourages hovering on walls.

    Assassin:
    • Sharpness 1 added to sword
    • Feather falling 2 added to boots
    • Redstone regeneration 25s -> 20s
    • Sugar regeneration 15s -> 12s
    • All kills during assassinate give credits (compared to just the first)
    The enchantments will allow assassin to actually function when its abilities are on cooldown.
    The ability cooldown reductions make assassin a more fast paced class.
    The credit change should have always been in the game. Kills are kills.

    Chemist:
    • Damage 2 potions (x12) -> Damage 1 potions (x8)
    • Poison 2 potions [5s] (x8) -> Poison 2 potions [10s] (x5)
    • Weakness 1 potions [10s] (x3) -> Weakness 3 potions [10s] (x4)
    • Healing 3 potions (x5) -> Healing 1 potions (x10)
    • Regeneration 3 potions [16s] (x5) -> Regeneration 3 potions [12s] (x4)
    • Reduce healthpot energy cost by 50%
    • Increase energy regeneration by 10%
    Chemist is broken. Insane healing and insane damage. This fixes that.
    I wanted to make chemist use all of its kit so I nerfed the damage and healing potions, and buffed weakness and poison potions to compensate. Weakness now does something for once. Damage and healing potions aren't ridiculous anymore. Regen is more fair and poison is really good. This makes the kit amazing for players that are actually good with potions and makes the class have a high skill floor and skill ceiling.

    Dwarf:
    • Max level 11 -> 12
    • Steaks 3 -> 2
    This makes dwarf have a little more damage and knockback but less sustain.

    Elf:
    • Fully charged water element shots gives 2.5 hearts to teammates
    • Water element arrow usage 1 -> 2
    • Shield lasts 1.5x longer
    • Shield can't regen during use
    • Shield starts regenerating after 5 seconds without use
    • Reflection bubble is slightly larger
    This allows elf to play as a ranged healer.
    The shield change makes it so that elf cannot spam its shield but allows it to get it team through heavy fire with ease.

    Engineer:
    • Turret now takes damage from projectiles
    • Shifting and holding right click with the sword while looking at the turret will regenerate 1 bar of health every 0.75 seconds. (11.25 seconds to fully heal the turret)
    • Turret's arrows are faster and fly in a straighter line
    • Enemies within 5 blocks of the turret will gain slowness 1 and mining fatigue 1
    This may seem like a huge buff, but it isn't that at all.
    Since you can only heal the turret with the sword, the turret is unable to shoot while it is being repaired. This allows any class to come up and kill the engineer while it is repairing. Making the turret take damage from projectiles is huge. Archers have another role to play instead of just shooting into doorways and the other teams spawn area. Mages can take out turrets by themselves. Engi battles can exist. The slowness discourages melee classes to fight the engi but instead promotes teamwork by having other team members shift their focus to the engi. The velocity change on the turret override is because you rarely see anyone actually use turret override so this promotes its use.

    Mage:
    • Damage spell cooldown increased by 0.2 seconds
    • Lightning spell gets increased range
    This makes mage much less spammy.
    Necro:
    • Hits required for a level 10 -> 6
    • Mobs give half of the xp of a player hit
    • You can have all types of mobs spawned at a time
    • Maximum of 8 mobs at a time
    • Streak needed for Skeletons 5 -> 4
    • Maximum skeletons at a time 4 -> 5
    • Streak needed for Blazes 15 -> 12
    • Maximum blazes at a time 3 -> 4
    • Extra buff level for blazes, longer fire duration
    This turns necro into an actual threat and allows it to get its mobs a lot earlier.
    Ninja:
    • Remove current Silly dust mechanic
    • New silly dust: Silly dust has to be held for 2 seconds to turn into invisibility powder
    • 64 invisibility powder -> 64 silly dust
    • Shifting/immobile dust depletion 2/s -> 1/s
    • Walking dust depletion 4/s -> 2/s
    • Sprinting dust depletion 6/s -> 4/s
    • On kill the ninja gains 16 silly dust, 2 smoke bombs, and 2 hearts
    • Smoke bombs give the enemy weakness 2 for 3 seconds
    • Loud egg explosion sound is changed to the sound when you drop an item in lava.
    This makes it difficult for ninjas to fade in and out of invisibility during combat, but greatly increases its stealth. The new ninja is meant to be played to ambush others, finish them off quickly, and move on to the next target. The weakness makes it so that you are able to have a chance of fighting stronger targets while killing the weaker targets much easier.
    Currently,
    Pyro:

    • On kill, give the pyro 2 arrows
    • Arrows 25 -> 20
    These changes allow pyro to keep getting kills without needing a medic to refill its items.
     
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    #1 yggiz, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  2. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
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  3. GreenNature

    GreenNature Nature is Creative

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    Archer:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    General reference: the first leaf block is 20 blocks, the second leaf block is 30 and the quartz is 50.
    Maybe 50 blocks is too far, the current wiki says it requires 25+ blocks to headshot a player so how about 35?
    I like the idea of removing punch I and adding knockback. 1+

    Heavy:
    I don't want Heavy's speed to be reduced, but the knockback is fine

    Medic:
    Sharpness I --> 1+
    "Regen heals until the player reaches full health." Isn't that the point of passive regeneration?
    "Players on full health with items missing will have a red dot next to the hp display, once items are restored it will turn green." Sure but we have no coders. rip
    The slowness giving snowball is too op, it's almost the same as giving slowness constantly.

    Soldier:
    These ideas are fine.

    Assassin:
    Absolutely perfect ideas, must add asap. 10+

    Chemist:
    You're making it so that they're xp bar runs out faster, so 1-

    Dwarf:
    Too op.

    Elf:
    Double the knockback instead of triple.
    Water element idea is good but keep it at 1 arrow.
    Shield idea is ok

    Engineer:
    Allow arrows to damage turret 1+
    Giving slowness to nearby slowness 1-
    You can already heal the turret, it's just a bit buggy.

    Mage:
    If it's a nerf 1+, if it's a buff 1-

    Necro:
    I don't give a damn

    Ninja:
    I like the current invisibility mechanic, no need for change.
    The rewards for getting a kill is fine.
    The depletion rate should be increased maybe sprinting to 4 instead of 3.

    Pyro:
    Ideas are fine 1+
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. yggiz

    yggiz Member

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    Archer: You only showed it at ground level, you also have to take into consideration that most archers will be shooting from a higher point which is exactly what I wanted. Archers shouldn't be able to easily insta kill on the same level as the other players. I will agree, for some maps 50 is way too much.

    Heavy: 10% slowness is half of the value of slowness 1, players will barely be able to notice it. This plus the knockback reduction really makes the class fit its name.

    Medic: The regen thing was badly worded, sorry. I meant to say that when you hit players to heal them, the regen that they get only works until they reach full health so they can't enter a fight with a few seconds of medic regen left. The slowness was meant to make up for being unable to web people running away, and for most of the slowness they would be in the air from the knockback.

    Chemist: Maybe make it so the damage and healing potions take half of the energy to use?

    Dwarf: Okay i'll agree with you here.

    Elf: I can agree with only double kb. 5 arrows for full health for full health and resistance is a bit op. Maybe 2 arrows per shot?

    Engineer: I think the slowness is a great idea. It creates situations where a team has to get a few people to take down a turret then the engi itself to control more area. It makes elf's reflect more useful since it can kill the turret using its own projectiles and gives both archer and elf another role in the game.

    Mage: I changed the damage to .75 per shot and the fire to + 1 second cooldown. I think this is better.

    Ninja: I completely disagree. The new mechanic makes it so ninja can't instantly turn invisible, walk through you, then proceed to backstab you and repeat. The fact that ninja can use invis in combat is so op. My adjustment makes it so the ninja gets more use out of the powder.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Greenfoot5

    Greenfoot5 Member

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    Greenfoot5#2535
    Currently ninja get silly powder after they hit someone so they can't immediately go invis. Idk how long that duration is though. I do still quite like the idea though.
    I think 50 blocks is still a little too much for the archer.
     
  6. Proterozoic

    Proterozoic Wiki Team is a Semi-Staff Rank

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    Hello there, welcome to the forums.

    1 is not a good idea. You're encouraging archers to camp. Also you'd make the headshot mechanic too difficult to pull off for new players. 2 and 3 have been suggested about a thousand times now. it's a decent idea but it wouldn't really make archer any less annoying. Archer is too powerful short range, we need to be weakening it short range, not exchanging 1 form of knockback for another.

    Heavy is supposed to be the balanced class. The problem with heavy is mainly with buffs, not normally. Interesting concept though
    1 I agree with. 2 not sure how this could be coded, I imagine its possible. Would be an interesting nerf. 3 is a good idea. 4 is pointless, webs already slow the player down enough

    1 and 2 you're making this unnecessarily complex, the regeneration right now is reasonable. 3 same thing and you could wallspam pretty easily.
    No to all of these, assassin needs a total rework for 1.9 (due to the change in blocking among other things) and so minor changes like this are pointless.
    1 no, chemist has had enough instant damage nerfs. 2 no, the poison is fine as is. 3, potential. 4 and 5 no, we've already nerfed it enough.
    Same as assassin, dwarf needs a total change in direction as its useless anywhere but flagrooms, where it's overkill. Minor changes (especially buffs) won't cut it.
    1 interesting concept. I'd quite like to knock them around more, right now it's rather weak. Wouldn't like to have quite that much vertical power though. 2 not 2 hearts, maybe a small amount of regen? 3 somewhat balances 2 so workable. 4 5 and 6 virtually cancel each other out anyway, seems a pointless change to me. The only thing that would benefit is they cant spam the thing because it would take 5 seconds before they began regenerating.
    1 yes it makes sense. 2 isn't there already a way to regen a turret? 3 no, the turret is annoying enough to kill with melee as is.
    1 sounds a bit weak to me. 2 3 and 4 sound like an unecessary nerf. 5 sounds like an unecessary buff and the heal spell is somewhat reasonable.
    1 no, you can get a lot of hits fast. 2 idk how I feel about that. 3 ten mobs sounds excessive. 4 and 5 sound minor changes when what really is needed is the mobs getting better AI. Same with 6 and 7 for blazes. 8 would be an interesting buff, by how much?
    1 and 2 no this is unnecessary. It already combats 414 just fine. The rest sound like unnecessary buffs.

    Pyro was reworked and its just fine. I don't see a need to change anything
    Quite a few things need changes. All of these are minor tweaks at best, with some not addressing the problems with the classes that really matter. A lot of these have also been suggested (and subsequently rebuked) before.[/QUOTE]
     
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  7. Claod

    Claod Well-Known Member

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    Chemist:
    • Healing 2 potions (x5) -> Healing 1 potions (x8)


    Actually, chemist has instant hhealth III pots. That means you gain I hearts if you land the pot perfectly on you head. Instant health I on the other hand only heals 2 hearts, and you're pretty likely to miss that pot only get 2 heart. I think the current instant health III is fine because you never perfectly land a pot and get the full 8 hearts.
     
  8. yggiz

    yggiz Member

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    Sorry, I based all my information off of the wiki. Then make the instant health 3 to instant health 2's. If people don't know how to pot that is their problem not the classes problem. Classes should be balanced around the highest skill level it can be played at, not the regular players.
     
  9. Claod

    Claod Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it is difficult to pot perfectly under most fighting situations. I doubt most people don't even know how, and if you don't, you only really get like 2-3 hearts. Since chemist has trash armor, that instant health III is extremely helpful in not dying from ninja in 2 seconds.
     
  10. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    lmao, you run out of pots quickly enough right now unless you have a medic. Making it 8xInsta2 pots is going to make it a lot worse. It's InstaHealth3 because if you look at chemists armour, it's not really up to much.
     
  11. yggiz

    yggiz Member

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    Instant health 3 is 8 hearts. That is twice as good as the steak classes, AND it has more pots than steak. If people are getting 2 hearts from an 8 heart potion they're doing something wrong. And for the pots making up for the mediocre armor, Medic only has 4% more protection than chemist while archer has only 8% more. You also have to take the rest of chemist's kit into consideration. Unnerfed strength, speed, REGEN 3, fire res, and dont forget all the debuffs. You can't complain about chemist having less healing than it already does, because right now its an insane class for people that know how to use it.
     
  12. Claod

    Claod Well-Known Member

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    Actually, for the 2-3 hearts, I was talking about the Instant health II, and that is barely anything. Looking at your stats (I know, I brought stats up), I see that you've played chemist for 8 minutes.
    Screenshot 2017-05-02 at 8.45.58 PM.png
    (494.4/60=8.24 minutes). Now you either got bored quickly or raged on the fact that is is difficult to pot as a new player! If you got bored quickly or something, your 8 minutes also does not automatically grant you much credibility. Now I've personally played chemist for 1.6 days, or 282 times longer than you have even touched the class! And I'm not flaming you, but I must say that some things are not as easy as it seems. The current mechanism is decent for all skill levels. An experienced chemist can't necessarily solo-cap on a 20 man defense, but a new player can do some decent damage and give support. Yes, support. Chemist is a support class and a lot of people use those Instant health III to heal teammates or flagcarriers. It will be pretty much useless if you can only give 1-2 hearts per pot to a flagcarrier because you only have Instant health II. (and I say 1-2 because the flagcarrier needs to be on the move and it's hard to pot a moving entity). Besides, the other important thing is that the majority of people using chemist don't know how to pot while on the move. Just saying that it's the players fault and not the class's means you're only focusing on the minority. Even if you have an experienced chemist that knows how to pot while on the move, it's so easy to get knocked off the trajectory of the potion while pvping. None of the other classes have to worry about this because they have quick and easy steak. Plus, the pots take time to hit the floor or your body. A ninja could easily drop them (kill them before they can pot) due to pot delay or overwhelming, knock them off their pot so they get less heals, or step in closer to get some of that free Instant health III. Downgrading to Instant health II means that you can drop a chemist in 3-4 seconds with ninja, heavy, soldier, or pyro.
     
  13. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, it has so much healing because it has terrible armour compared to the other main capping classes. A ninja does about 3 hearts every hit meaning you have to heal every 2-3 times a ninja hits you. Every time an archer hits you and their now is fully drawn, it does 9 hearts and gives you slowness. There are only a few good chemists and they can usually be killed if you have 2-3 ninjas on defence.
     
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