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The real reason chemist offense sucks rn

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Lewka, May 14, 2017.

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  1. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    Alright alright hear me out on this. This isn't complaining to make chemist the broken 1 man army tank that it used to be.

    Lately, I think it's agreed that chemist has fallen out of the meta. The only exceptions are chemist mains like @Suntail (props to you for playing it so well after its several consecutive nerfs).
    Anyhow, with heavy and ninja being the most effective defense classes, chemist struggles to steal the flag and survive at the same time.

    That being said, offensive chemist has a very difficult time of even surviving out of the flagroom, mainly because of its weak armor and 5 health pots. Hell, it's become very difficult to do that well anymore at stealing the flag, most cases dying to the strong def, and id give one reason for that case: mana costs.

    I get that mana costs are very high right now so randy chemists don't potspam, but how does that help any objective chemists trying to play the game? Oftentimes I die to recovery/defense because of no mana ( 1 damage pot plus heal pot and say goodbye to your mana and hello to ninja+heavy critting you to death). The damage pot has way too harsh mana costs, considering chemists squishy nature and necessity to frequently heal pot and do damage all the time.

    "But luka, just don't use your damage pots and you'll do fine?", no. Your chances of survival are still minimal if the defense would still consistently attack you, heal pots alone just delay your deaths, and using only your sword is nearby impossible given you get 2-3 shot by everyone. Damage pot knocks the player away, giving the chemist a better fighting chance and making it easier to maintain combos. Think of it like ninjas eggs, sure ninjas do fine without them but their cc helps ninja loads.

    So that's all I'm asking. A slight reduction of damage pot mana cost and maybe an extra two health pots to help fight the current tank meta. Not a drastic decrease which makes potspamming a reality again, just a small reduction to make chemist offense not as difficult to play. IIRC it costs about a 1/3 of your mana for one damage pot, why not make it 1/4 instead? 4 damage pots thrown by randoms instead of three really isn't a problem, considering chemist is still very easy to kill at the moment.
     
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    #1 Lewka, May 14, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  2. November

    November november

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    chemist is meant to be able to use 4 but BRAWL and it was never implemented

    https://www.brawl.com/threads/46262/
     
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    #2 November, May 14, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  3. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    What if we just remove the mana system completely and add a very short cooldown on damage pots? They're the only ones that get spammed - if there's a half a second cooldown then potspamming won't be incredibly OP but it will still be viable to use alongside other potions too. (I'm not a chemist main though, half a second could be too much)
     
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    #3 SoCool21, May 14, 2017
  4. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    Don't think that would work out for the simple reason that sometimes you'd need to reuse another damage pot fast. Cooldowns would force chemist to be super passive like mage, which is a terrible idea for a melee class imo
     
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    #4 Lewka, May 14, 2017
  5. Miskey

    Miskey Leader of Annihilation | Former Media Manager

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    I'd personally like to see chemist transitioned into a sort of lucio-like class personally. Offensive support, but individually stronger than the current chemist.
     
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    #5 Miskey, May 14, 2017
  6. Fig_Newtonz

    Fig_Newtonz Active Member

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    I think chemist should have 15 health potions
     
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    #6 Fig_Newtonz, May 14, 2017
  7. xKieran

    xKieran CTFer since 2013

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    Chemist used to have 10 health pots, why this was changed is my question. Half the time I die as chemist is to a ninja because of the sincere amount of damage it does to a chemist, so I don't get why they lowered the amount of health pots especially with weak armour which helps you get two shot by a ninja.
     
    #7 xKieran, May 14, 2017
  8. Fig_Newtonz

    Fig_Newtonz Active Member

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    Chemist with 10 health pots was very difficult to kill and capping with it was pretty easy as long as you just threw health pots at the right time.
     
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    #8 Fig_Newtonz, May 14, 2017
  9. BuIIy

    BuIIy Active Member

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    #9 BuIIy, May 15, 2017
  10. Proterozoic

    Proterozoic Wiki Team is a Semi-Staff Rank

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    New chemists spam just about every pot imagineable. Whether that's a problem or not is a different thing entirely. Damage and poison pots would be quite nice to limit with a cooldown (if not less than they really are currently).

    @xKieran too high a health pool originally, which wasn't wrong. The problem is they limited it's damage output with pots and health pool to the point now where it really can't fight back well against a ninja (unless you're a chemist god)
     
    #10 Proterozoic, May 15, 2017
  11. misterslime

    misterslime Well-Known Member

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    Make damage pots take 1/4 of ur mana and give chemi 3 heal pots
     
    #11 misterslime, May 16, 2017
  12. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    All you nerds run out of mana?!?!
    Only time I run out is when I accidentally panic and start scrolling and then throw all the wrong pots.
    I would say more but I'm lazy.
    -1
     
    #12 Salty_Ivan, May 16, 2017
  13. misterslime

    misterslime Well-Known Member

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    Same
     
    #13 misterslime, May 17, 2017
  14. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    i'd like to see you consistently cap as chemist which I'm sure if you do its only on servers with 10-20 players
     
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    #14 Lewka, May 17, 2017
  15. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see you cap.
    Also, define consistently.

    Reread the OP. Have you ever heard of regen? It's the second most broken thing with the class and you don't mention that at all.
     
    #15 Salty_Ivan, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  16. lnformative

    lnformative Well-Known Member

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    "Your magic has run dry!!!"
     
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    #16 lnformative, May 18, 2017
  17. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    Consistently in the sense you can cap every time guaranteed and fail to die to recovery of any sorts.

    Yes, I have heard of regen, and it seriously doesn't give chemist such a major advantage in pvp or survival considering it only maybe takes 1 hit more to finish off chemist if they used regen.
     
    #17 Lewka, May 18, 2017
  18. TheZombieKat

    TheZombieKat CTFer since May 2012

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    I'm a terrible Chemist so I can't give much input... so I'm going to ask questions instead.

    What I have noticed is that unless you're a Chemist god you're going to die against anything with better armor. Is this because you don't have enough health pots, because you run out of mana, or because Chemist's armor is just too weak?
     
    #18 TheZombieKat, May 18, 2017
  19. Davegdragon01

    Davegdragon01 Active Member

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    mana and a bit with the armor, but mostly mana. Dmg pot takes alot of mana and mana doesnt regen fast enough.



    Im fine with dmg taking alot of mana, but can we make it so tht the health pot takes less? Or just make health take no mana. I find it kindof tedious tht objects people werent complaining about take mana
     
    #19 Davegdragon01, May 18, 2017
  20. TheZombieKat

    TheZombieKat CTFer since May 2012

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    If damage pots' mana requirement didn't change but health pots no longer required mana, would that make it easier to survive? I'm not saying it'll be done, just trying to see the solutions in case this is ever tweaked/fixed.
     
    #20 TheZombieKat, May 18, 2017
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