Religion Debates and Discussions

Interesting how you start a long, involved, complex conversation about religion and when people actually question you on it you bail out.

@Usp45 same reason as gehenna tbh. I like to think we were put on earth for a reason rather than being an accident of biology.

 

I guess that's one way to win an argument, deny all facts and logic.

 

Also, don't ever come into a debate and tell us we've got to open our minds when YOU just said yourself that there is nothing that could change your mind. I'd be happy to convert if I was presented with a convincing argument with facts. YOU can not claim to have an open mind.

 

THIS POST.

THIS POST IS SO FULL OF CRAP I DON'T EVEN.

1. idk what the hell you're talking about with the FSM making itself known in 2005. The FSM isn't supposed to be a real tangible example, it's just used to show you how idiotic your arguments are

2. "The world is rigged against Christians". what. the fck. Western civilisation is fking run by Christians. Sure we can debate the Middle East and the third world, but if we can keep things to the West, since I think that's key to our debate, then no way can you make the argument that Christians have a hard time. In the Deep South, in Alabama, Christianity is like a core tenet of their entire fking society. If you're an open atheist, you have a really hard time down there.

3. And then you go on to say it's rigged because there's no evidence of God? Then you say that there IS evidence, and that atheists just ignore it because of their "beliefs"? DO YOU REALISE HOW STUPID THIS IS.

a) There is no evidence that the FSM exists. Does that mean the world is rigged against Pastaferians?

b) this is the big one: WHAT BELIEFS? SAY IT WITH ME GEHENNA. I AM LOSING MY MIND HERE PLEASE SAY IT WITH ME. ATHEISM. IS. NOT. A. BELIEF. IT. IS. THE. EXACT. OPPOSITE.

Please understand. Most atheists are not atheists because we're sinners. Or because we hate God. Or because we're too fixated on our "beliefs", which is I think the dumbest thing you've said since the fact that dinosaurs lived with 900-year-old humans. Atheists are atheists simply because we are logical people who do not see any evidence for God existing and therefore decide that we don't believe he exists.

All conspiracy theorists and nutters do this - creationists, flat-earthers, all of them. They see nearly all scientists and experts lining up against them saying "this doesn't make sense. this isn't true. that's simply not accurate. there's no evidence for this." and they don't think "huh maybe I was wrong", instead they think "omg all the scientists are too fixated on their beliefs, they all have some secret agenda that they're pushing".

Very few scientists are actually pushing agendas. Please don't convince yourself that scientists are against you because they hate God or whatever BS you've dreamt up. Scientists are by-and-large against creationism because there is no evidence for it and it contradicts mountains of evidence that we already have.

Please believe me, if there emerges evidence that creationism is real, that God is real, then I will happily become a Christian! Actually maybe not completely happily, because I would've been wrong all this time which would suck but I don't run from the truth. Whereas your faction of belief has been proven wrong time and time again but still you stick to your guns.

 

b) NO

NO
NO
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NO
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NO

YOU don't get to tell me what atheists believe. YOU don't get to tell me what I believe. What if I told you that all Christians believe in Poseidon? Would it make it true? That's like you telling atheists they have a BELIEF there is no God.

Atheism. Is. Not. A. Belief. SOME atheists believe there is no God. I am in that category. But you CANNOT re-define atheism.

And by the way you're building a MASSIVE strawman when you say that atheists don't want God to exist. Can you provide any evidence of this? I can provide mountains of evidence that Christians WANT God to exist, but I've never met an atheists who says "golly wouldn't it just suck if God existed". Quite the opposite, most atheist friends and family I talk about it with in real life say that they wish God were real, but it just ain't so. Again, I'm in that category.

Gehenna, can you do something for me? Can you disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or at least, show why we shouldn't believe in him? Can you do that?

 

How do you know it's flawed if it's correct?
That's what logic is. Logic is correct, you can't deny it.
If i said there were chickens and rabbits in a pen, there were 44 heads and 124 heads, how many chickens and rabbits were there?
x+y = 44
2x + 4y = 124
x= 44-y
2(44-y) + 4y = 124
88+2y = 124
2y= 36
y= 18.
18 rabbits, 26 chickens.
This is what people mean by logic. Logical evidence. Science, in many forms, is logic. What you're telling us is there's 50 each and you expect me to add more rabbits and chickens to suit your answer.

 

1. I know it doesn't make sense to you. So why don't you try to understand it instead of telling me what my beliefs are.

This is how I understand the different levels of belief in God

Hardline Atheist (me): There is no God.
Atheist: I don't believe there is a God.
Agnostic: Maybe there is a God
Christian: There is a God.

See the differences?

And to the second thing, "why do we keep implying there's a set standard to being an atheist?"

I'm sorry but this is a really dumb question. The set standard to being an atheist is the DEFINITION. It's WHAT THE WORD MEANS.

Example:

*me and Gehenna standing next to a bike*
Me: That's a bike
Gehenna: No, that's a car
Me: No, that's a bike. See, it has two wheels, cars have four.
Gehenna: OMG why are you implying there's a set standard for what a bike is, it's like a religion!!!

See how dumb that is? Atheism is the complete opposite of religion, I don't know what part of this is hard to understand. A religion is a belief, atheism is a lack of a belief.

It's like, you don't believe in unicorns, correct? So do 7 billion other people. Does that mean you're all part of a religion together? The Anti-Unicorn religion? You don't all share a BELIEF, you share the LACK OF A BELIEF, which is different.

 

The first outright rejects the existence of God and will deny any evidence given. The second doesn't believe there is one, but still can be persuaded to believe there is a God using evidence. Anyway, I think it wasn't the best of ideas to open this kind of thread.

 

OK, this took me a while to understand too but I think it's important to know the difference when you're discussing religion and atheism.

I'm not a professor of logic or whatever but my understanding is that claims can be positive or negative. A positive claim is that something exists, something is real, something that can be proven:

"God is real"

"Pluto is real"

"My parents are real"

Then a negative claim can't be proven, it's the opposite of a positive claim:

"There is no God"

"Pluto is not real"

"Your parents aren't real"

So, if we call the claim that God exists Claim 1 and the claim that he doesn't exist Claim 2, then it's like this:

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in Claim 1. Claim 2 is irrelevant. You can think whatever you want about Claim 2, you are an atheist if and only if you disagree with Claim 1. Capiche?