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Idea [Class Idea] Archer rework

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Freedom_35, Aug 2, 2017.

?

Could this be a good rework?

  1. Awesome! Interesting ideas! +1

    16.7%
  2. I could stand to see this added, sure +0,5

    11.1%
  3. Maybe if you change stuff +0 for the moment

    22.2%
  4. Undecided +0

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Nah, not really -0,5

    22.2%
  6. Heck no, your ideas suck! -1

    27.8%
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  1. Freedom_35

    Freedom_35 Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,
    Wizz here. As we all probably know, archer is stuck in a situation in which it has overpowered aspects, but every nerf will make it underpowered. Sword? Weakest in ctf. Bowspam? Constantly complained about. Headshots? Constantly complained about. Random headshots? Most annoying of all. But if you nerf all of these, archer will be useless. That's why I (and some others, of course) decided to give ideas for a complete rework of the class. Feel free to change stuff to the idea, but here's what I got:

    Not bold=unchanged
    Bold=Changed

    Hotbar 1: Archer sword: stone, same as always.
    Hotbar 2: Archer steak: 4, same as always, no changes.

    Hotbar 3: Archer bow: changes:
    -No punch
    -have to pull it all the way back to shoot (like in the lobby)
    -headshot distance now 40 blocks instead of 30. But every kill decreases it by one block. Maximum of 10.
    -If you shoot and kill someone, the headshot distance decreases by one. So the more kills you get, the shorter you have to shoot to get kills. This stops at 10 kills. So you start off with a 40-block headshot, but this can decrease all the way to 30 blocks. This is the minimum range, it won't decrease after this.
    Hotbar 4: Primary arrows: you start off with like 30-40 something arrows. If you use them, you can't get a medic to restore your items.
    Hotbar 5: Secondary arrows, if you shoot and kill someone, you get two bonus arrows. If you get 10 kills, this would mean you could get back 20 arrows. This may seem like a lot, but you start off with only 30 or 40 (primary arrows).

    Hotbar 6: nothing, empty
    Hotbar 7: nothing, empty
    Hotbar 8: archer compass, same as it always was
    Hotbar 9: class selector, same as it always was

    The idea of all these changes is to make archer a more skilled class, not just spamming arrows left and right. That's why I've decided to punish and reward archers with something they need, hearts. If they miss a lot, it means they will lose a lot of hearts. If the archer performs well, he will get rewarded with steaks and hearts, so he can go on to live longer. So archer will now be a bit harder to master, but if you practise a lot and get better, you can become quite powerful at the class.

    I hope this class idea could be a useful thing. I'm open to all feedback, and if you have any ideas to improve this one, please don't hesitate to tell me. I'm quite curious what the opinions are on these changes.
    Seeya guys,
    Wizzlol707/Darth__Invader
     
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    #1 Freedom_35, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  2. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    Just because it's a ranged powerhouse doesn't mean it should be squishier than a marshmallow.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Freedom_35

    Freedom_35 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, what do you mean? That it's weak this way? Not really, it gets a slightly stronger sword, and can actually stay alive longer if it performs well.

    Also @misterslime you voted for the 'change something' option. Could you please tell me in chat what exactly that would be? I might consider it :smile:
     
  4. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    One or two steaks is not enough for archer to stand against anything. When fighting a ninja usually you would use one and occasionally two. Combined with ninja's mobility, this makes them a sitting duck. This is assuming the archer just got to their spot, of course. Even after a while this leaves them extremely weak. In matches you'd die before you make it halfway to your spot.
    As well, starting them off with maybe 8 or 10 arrows would be better. Average archers die before using a stack of arrows in full games.
    I would recommend knowing the ins and outs of fighting the class better.
     
  5. misterslime

    misterslime Well-Known Member

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    Get rid of the 3 ks thing, snowballing is bad
     
  6. Spades_

    Spades_ Former CTF Mod

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    I'm a fan of the primary and secondary arrow mechanic, however that's not where my concern lies. Punishing an archer by losing health per missed shot is not the way to go. People are going to miss way more shots than they land, and this specific addition could do more harm than good.
    Agreed. I wouldn't mess with the health mechanics of archer, whether that's giving steak per 3 kills, or taking health away per missed shot.
     
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  7. Freedom_35

    Freedom_35 Well-Known Member

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    But the thing is, a lot of us agreed that archer must be punished somehow for missing. I literally have no idea how to punish archer without it them abusing that.
    Fine, I guess I'll edit some stuff.

    @kevshadowslayer @misterslime @Spades_ @Claod @Salty_Ivan @Shawn_ I changed some stuff to the idea, how is it now?
     
  8. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    There is still a snowballing effect. Dwarf is a snowballing class and we all know how stupid that is. Engineer is one as well.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Cardonation

    Cardonation CTF JMOD | CMS Leader

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    Fully charging the bow in order to shoot/headshot is a good idea. However, I feel like the rest of it is way too complicated. Being a free class, archer should be a simple and understandable class to play. I feel only minor changes should be made to the class
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. Freedom_35

    Freedom_35 Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree about the minor changes part, but we've found out that even minor changes can make a class underpowered. So I decided we should maybe make an archer rework that doesn't destroy the whole class but makes it more enjoyable for everyone.
    It's actually not THAT complicated. The main changes are that you have to shoot harder, faster, stronger, better to achieve the same, and that you get rewarded with extra arrows and power for lasting long enough.
    I actually personally don't find this too much of a problem. I think it should be ok.
     
  11. pandanielxd

    pandanielxd its panda daniel

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    lol can oneshot people farrange but you complain about sword not being stronger/as strong as medic
     
  12. Spades_

    Spades_ Former CTF Mod

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    It looks better than it did before. However the limit of kills from 40 should be around 10, not 15. 25 blocks for a headshot is too close imo. I'd rather the limit be 10, because I think having the headshot distance of around 30-40 blocks is fine. Any higher or lower feels like it's too much or too little.
     
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  13. Freedom_35

    Freedom_35 Well-Known Member

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    That's because medic is a support class, and thus doesn't really need a strong sword. Medic is supposed to heal its teammates, not kill the enemy. Archer is also not supposed to be a melee class. They are supposed to be strong long-distance. But if medic, a non-melee class, gets a stronger sword, to me it'd be fair if another non-melee class, in this case archer, gets one too.

    Yeah, fair enough, I'll change it :smile:
     
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  14. Rejeqted

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    Maybe you have to charge your bow full up for headshots, so u still can get quickshots ( exampel- if your running then 180 then shoot then run) so you dont have to wait like 3s and then shoot, cause it wont have punch anymore then the kb is way less.
    If you dont charge your bow full up and still shoot somebody from 40+blocks it should do normal dmg (if that is even possible, shooting them with a not fully charged bow).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Freedom_35

    Freedom_35 Well-Known Member

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    I like your way of thinking! But the problem is, you would still be able to bowspam, and we're trying to get rid of that.
     
  16. misterslime

    misterslime Well-Known Member

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    Archer is a ranged class.
     
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  17. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, while you're at it give Mage a sword, add another level of Sharpness to Engineer's pickaxe, give pyro Sharpness X because it has a bow, give Chemist Strength IV because that class uses pots, etc. etc.
    Just because a class whose intended niche isn't melee fighting gets a sword buff doesn't justify a buff to another class.
     
  18. Freedom_35

    Freedom_35 Well-Known Member

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    EDIT: @Daniellll @Salty_Ivan I changed it to knockback I, would that be ok?

    lol FINALLY managed to edit the stupid thing xD (iPad kept crashing)
     
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  19. Versions

    Versions CTF Moderator

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    Adding knockback won't help at all. It is not meant to have a strong sword because archer is a ranged class, not a melee class.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    If you're trying to make Archer less of a nuisance at close range, why would you add knockback to the sword after removing it from the bow (punch = knockback)? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of removing the punch?
     
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