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When will there be a better solution?

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Removers, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    Hackers take too long to get banned, we need more staff on the server for one throughout the entire day and it doesn't matter about "Oh lack of JMods" stuff like I was told when I was in staff chat that doesn't matter the Mods can still Moderate chat just as easily as they could when they were JMods too...

    Ok so @chickenputty there has literally been a massive increase in Ghost Client users over the past few months to the point where it is very difficult to see who is legit on the server and who isn't... and to deal with the amount of people staff or players find as Ghost client users takes hours and hours of videos and recordings to get them banned at all and some people like Me or other skilled players will get falsely banned constantly as there is no way of really telling if they are legit or not considering they can do fishy things like a hacker would be able to do.

    As you may or may not know I was demoted for "hacking" even though I wasn't I did countless videos and other things to prove myself to others that I did not cheat and I pretty much did anything any player would ever be able to do without there being a ScreenShare system but I was still demoted as they were not able to be 100% on if I was hacking or if I was not...
    As I've said it takes hours and hours to get a Ghost Client user banned from the server and the amount of Ghost Client users has increased and the fact of "CheatBreaker is coming out soon" will not help out considering it is going to be out for 1.7 only at first and 1.8 probably a few months away and then people are going to find a lot of bypasses for it while they code for 1.8... and it isn't 100% that they will end up making 1.8 CheatBreaker meaning we'll still have to take hours and hours to find out who is cheating and who isn't... and even when CheatBreaker is out it doesn't mean people are going to be on it all the time they might have the launcher ect but people are bound to make fake versions of it to hide hacks too...

    Considering all of what I've just stated above I really suggest allowing ScreenShares to happen, make a ScreenShare protocol guide for staff to follow to avoid them going into private files and use ScreenShare tools too... People are going to be saying on this thread "Oh ye I don't want them going through private files" ect... but the thing is only if you are fishy you'd end up getting Screenshared in the first place and some of those fishy people will say no as an excuse if they are hacking and the others will most likely say yes as it is a way for them to prove themselves a lot more than what they already can...

    I get that ScreenShares won't solve everything but they sure as hell will improve the speed of banning those Ghost Clienters and reduce a lot of false bans... If people are joining the server make sure they are aware that it is a server that does ScreenShares and that if you are a "fishy" player and get reported a lot to have TeamSpeak 3 and programs like "AnyDesk" and "Join.me" ready for a ScreenShare protocol run by trusted staff members.

    I'd really like to know what is going to be done to help with this situation if not ScreenShares because it isn't getting better and it is just getting worse and worse... (Ignore the lack of grammar ect in this post I was lazy)

    Also if people are scared of some SS tools being to steal information then: https://ssverify.com/
     
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    #1 Removers, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  2. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    No. there is no guarantee some or even most ghost clients can be detected via screenshare, especially since some of them have self destruct options which do not leave a trace. Most people are not going to be willing to pay money for clients that are literally undetectable, with or without a screenshare and those that do... what are you supposed to do about it?

    Other issue - finding hacks on someone's computer via screenshare does not mean they are actually using those hacks. If I'm not sure whether or not someone is hacking (let alone what those hacks might be) and after a freeze + screenshare I find .killaura in a folder should they get banned for it if I don't know if the client was being used? How do I know they hadn't been using an inject client via USB or a self destructing client, which they removed beforehand?

    All of that ^^ is still ignoring the fact that screenshares are invasive, time consuming, and sometimes unnecessary. Even worse if the hacker (or suspected hacker) is a kid and has protective parents - as a lot of kids do (I did). The last thing they are going to do is consent to a screenshare with random people on the internet, and yes staff are random people. What do you do? Ban them for hacking because, clearly, their refusal to screenshare indicates that they are hacking?
     
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  3. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    They have self-destruct yes but they leave traces of things still and aren't "undetectable" the reason I said to put a message in chat about the ScreenShare would be to avoid people having the hacks on their computer and not using them in the first place... and there are ways to tell if that person has recently used the client too... SceenShares are hardly invasive considering no real "private" files are even seen through screenshares unless the person being screenshared show them... and screenshares are time consuming however it is faster than the process we have right now... Chances are if they are playing on the server with the message in chat about the screenshare they'd know to be careful on how they are in a PvP way and normally when it comes to parents being protective they are at a young age and can't really PvP all too well anyway and wouldn't end up being SS'd to begin with xD if the person refuses to SS then yes ban them at least it is going to solve the situation we are currently in anywaaaaaaaaaaaayssssss....
     
  4. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    +1, shame it won't be added because brawls staff is too lazy for this
     
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  5. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    And it might take multiple screenshares to find those traces, assuming that evidence of someone using (presumably) a high end ghost client is ever found. Also pretty sure Vea is undetectable (Fusk, obv, is not)

    That doesn't prevent the possibility of people having hacks on their computer. i.e. someone used nodus (or whatever) a few months/years and forgot they even had it. Someone does screenshare and finds the client. banned.

    They are invasive because you are giving someone who you (most likely) do not know access to your computer and all of the files on it - unless password protected. That is the definition of invasion of privacy.

    There have been numerous instances of mods looking through tons of files on ppl's computers, for hours, and not finding anything - only for that player to later turn out to have been hacking and get banned for it.

    Ya & ghost clients are meant to emulate normal PvP as closely as possible meaning that someone could be minding their own business and suddenly get freezed w/a request for screenshare by a staff member.

    And then that person is going to start up a bunch of drama about it on the forums which does nothing but highlight one of the main problems with screenshare. Even worse because they'd actually be justified in making a scene because they got banned due to circumstances entirely out of their control (i.e. mod "thinking" they're using a ghost client & parents not wanting them to share private info with some dudes on the internet, especially if the kid is using their parents' computer). That is not fair to the player nor to the staff member (if, hypothetically 'ban if refusal to screenshare' was a protocol) and might as well be considered a guilty if proven innocent sort of thing.
     
    #5 EmperorTrump45, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  6. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    All I need to say is ScreenShares are needed on all servers to do with PvP and have common amounts of GClient users on them otherwise it is going to go to ****...
     
  7. Hitchens

    Hitchens Well-Known Member

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    You need to say why it is so, not just that it is so. I agree with admiral. A screenshare protocol is not a good idea. Now why do I think so? I have been screenshared once on m4play, and it was very unpleasant. I could have had to leave due to irl stuff or anything. Would I then have been banned even tho I never hacked? Probably.
     
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    #7 Hitchens, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  8. Raging_

    Raging_ Well-Known Member

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    Vape and vape lite are almost completely not detectable which is why I use both of them at the same time (not really but) yes there is a string that staff search for but I'm not sure many people know about that string so
     
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  9. SillyPickles

    SillyPickles Well-Known Member

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    screensharing cant really prove they are legit or not. personally, i've gotten really used to it and just leave the hacker alone or truce up. not trying to hate or disagree but i heard you have a tendency to rage pretty hard when you die :/ you sure youre not just upset over dying?
     
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  10. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    Why I said to have a protocol...
     
  11. fridge

    fridge Active Member

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    you know they are detectable especially vape is vape lite is harder to find but its possible
     
  12. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    Silly this isn't about raging or **** it isn't just me that has noticed the increase of GC'ers and trucing with them won't really get rid of them will it? Also things like Process hacker help a lot and Vape is actually very easy to find...
     
  13. SillyPickles

    SillyPickles Well-Known Member

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    you sure? i once killed you one time in kit. and you got off and went on another rant about wanting to ban tcp for like an hour only for it to get ignored
     
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  14. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    Reasons being mods like TcpNoDelay literally get rigged and setup to have hack clients inside of them and people very often confuse them... if TcpNoDelayMod has more than 6KB it probably has a hacked client inside of it /shrug...
    They hide reach and double click clients in them lol
     
  15. SillyPickles

    SillyPickles Well-Known Member

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    i dunt understand why u feel the need to rage and make big deals about stuff like this in a gamemode where u can respawn and/or simply team on the hacker till he quits. ive learned to no longer rely on staff for hackers and to take matters into my own hands lol

    "please use /report" <- we all know this is just to shut players up
     
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  16. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    Stop taking the thread off of the topic please. Topic being screenshares and not what you feel against me because you got mad at me for literally no reason...
     
  17. SillyPickles

    SillyPickles Well-Known Member

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    oh but am i wrong?
     
  18. Squidward

    Squidward BEST WARZ SMOD NO KAPPA (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    Like he said, please stay on topic of things. Besides that, ScreenShares would be a decent idea. Many steps could be taken, including having a staff member record the screenshare incase anything abusive is done. Only set permission to ScreenShare to certain individuals who apply for it and it has to go through Putty.
     
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  19. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    If you are not going to be 100% accurate with screenshares, which you can't (given how many ways you can hide/delete various clients), then it's not a good use of time. This is for several reasons

    1) no guarentee you will ban someone who is hacking - if you ban them at all - if they have old clients on their computer.

    2) Can take multiple screenshares (and a lot of time) to find a ghost client, and there's still no guarantee of that @BrawlIsMyCity

    3) Some ghost clients can already be detected in game (some with optifine zoom. can detect 0.5-0.75 block reach)

    4) No reasonable way to deal with someone who refuses to screenshare. What are you supposed to do when that happens? Ban them? People want privacy and no one should be banned because they refuse to screenshare - be it for privacy or because their parents do not want their computer or their kid's computer being searched by some dude on the internet. I am not saying mods, smods, etc. are not trustworthy, by and large they are (I recently screen shared with yinscape. he took out 8 hours of his time to reinstall all the programs on my linux system - it was outdated) only that there is no way to guarantee that to someone's parents. If you're going to ban someone for hacking get some evidence that they are actually hacking instead of assuming they're hacking because they don't want to screen share.

    Also recording the screenshare just means that Brawl is going to be storing (some) personal information of people who have hacked/have not hacked. That solves the issue of abuse but does not deal with privacy violation and just makes it worse.

    My issue with this has less to do with screen share's effectiveness at detecting ghost clients than it does with privacy and the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude that it implies, which allows you to get banned for just about anything.
     
  20. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    1. https://ssverify.com/tools.html there are ways to check if the person was actually using the client at that specific time lol... and as said in 4 if they know SS'ing is going to happen then they can remove all the clients they have before playing it isn't hard to do.

    2. It takes about 40 minutes of footage to get a single person banned already for using a GC and that includes editing the videos too to make it more clear ect... so a 40 minute screenshare compares nothing to the 2-3 weeks of gathering all of that footage to get a single person banned.

    3. Yes they can already be detected in game some of them but there are more than a lot of people that use good clients that you can't really see well in game and if they aren't spotted well in game straight away you need to record those 40 minute videos as I've said to get them banned...

    4. I'd rather get rid of cheaters and people lying for reasons on not wanting to screenshare or people that can't screenshare than deal with the increasing amount going and it isn't hard to comply with a screenshare either and I highly doubt anyone is going to be like "I CAN'T SS MY PARENTS SAID NO" considering you can just put that warning up in chat to make sure they know "Hey this is a server that does screenshares!" and they can be aware of that and then if they get ss'd and refused it wouldn't be our fault for banning them for refusal... We'd still be using our knowledge of detecting hacks before freezing the people we aren't just going to freeze any odd person and the Pros of people don't really you know uhhh... get their parents going at them or have much of a reason to refuse at all so....
    If they get banned for having a client and not using it their own fault in the first place if we have a warning telling them and same things goes for people playing on the server that does SS's even though they are aware and can't do the screenshare...
    Also they wouldn't need to record the screenshare they just take a screenshot of what they find...
     
    #20 Removers, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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