should repetitive earth element spam be against mmr

i support the movement

 

I wouldn't go as far as to completely ban it through MMR, elf doesn't have much going for it as it is. It should be fine if were treated like an optional restriction, if a team wanted to make sure they didn't have to deal with it, then just request earth spam be prohibited for the match.

I've only seen this competitively used by Snowbreak against TT, simply because it irritates them (he does it in our practices too, but he hasn't really done much with it as it's seriously easy to counter). This seems like a pretty petty reason to have a single effective strategy against TT (there are basically none, let's be honest) completely banned from all matches.

 

I don't think the overall point of this thread is because it is a counter to The Templars, it's mostly because about 90% of the community finds it annoying not being able to move for a large period of time, because of how your mobility is basically cut to none when being earth element spammed. There have been various times when people have been able to pinpoint their earth element shot very well, showing that you don't need to spam it for it to be effective. Spamming it is annoying, and just by the poll of this thread you can easily tell that many people dislike the spam.

 

I've asked before, but what qualifies as spam? How many shots have to land for it to be considered spam? Instead of figuring this out, just give the element a cool down.

 

If we're going by the poll, it's actually closer to 82%, Jay. Jokes, Jay, jokes.

I was assuming that Matt was refering to it's use against TT because that's been the minor beef between Snow and TT. I also assumed that this was regarding competitive usage, not general gameplay, since the poll is asking for a ban via MMR, excuse the mix up. So why ban it through MMR when the overall best solution would just be to add a cooldown? Can't say I'm too thrilled about an elf nerf though.

 

Why change the class in its entirety, which would effect regular gameplay, instead of just enforcing a limit of earth arrows used in a certain amount of time, which is essentially a cooldown.

 

It's clear spam when you get shot 5-6 times and you aren't able to move.

Please do not accuse The Templars or Matt of creating this thread for the reason of them having problems with TBF/Snow. No one ever brought up TBF until the team was mentioned by their own players.

I would go with a cooldown that would probably go off every 3 seconds, which could seem fair. But also just limiting the arrows would clearly work as you states. What limit would you suggest?

 

I'd say that it would be balanced if elf can only fire two consecutive earth elements before they have to use another element fully charged or change their position, this way it promotes using multiple elements, like pure elementing them while they're stuck in place

 

Where in my statement did I accuse anyone? I only said it because there have literally been problems between Snow and TT for this exact reason, less an accusation and more a statement of fact. So, I have to ask again, this thread is asking for a ban through MMR, why do that when there could just be a cooldown?

 

Because a cooldown involves coding and a developer, not something we have at the moment, but until then I think that a limit in the MMR would be helpful, then there's also the decision of if the cooldown would just be on match servers or for all servers, a change in rules would be quicker and easier

 

If it were to be given a cool down, then refs wouldn't have to watch an elf, and count the arrows that it uses. It's a simple change, and wouldn't "change the class in its entirety". There would be no arguments over what technically is or isn't earth spam. A permanent, simple change to solve the problem.

True we don't have a coder specifically for ctf, but we have coders who are more than capable of making a change as small as this. It'd be much more effective, and it does the same thing as monitoring the elf's usage.

 

Use common sense

Right here:

in other words... a templars member is asking for a semi effective strategy to be banned because it is being used against the templars.

How is that not an accusation? And who cares if that was the reasoning for this thread? It doesn't make it less of a good idea and no less worthy of adding to mmr

Because a ban is easier and does not require nerfing an already weak class. A ban is also self explanatory. If egg spam, medic web spam, and bowspam are all banned under mmr, banning earth element spam is just an extension of that logic (i.e. annoying tactics that are detrimental to gameplay)

Again, you don't need to "count the arrows" Elf is using. You just need common sense. If someone is spamming arrows, webs, eggs, or whatever it's pretty obvious and does not need micromanaging

the exact rate at which someone is spamming doesn't matter

 

Well, if both solutions do the same thing, no point in arguing about it. Just as long as it gets done. Whether it be a cool down, or a rule change, the out come is the same. So +1

 

CTF has limited amounts of classes that can do limited amounts of things. By taking away one of the classes strongest points, you're limiting the meta.

 

It's not being taken away, it's being limited so that it's only used reasonably, you don't need to spam earth element for it to be effective. Earth spam is hardly one of elf's strongest points.

 

Regarding the accusation, as I said, it was an assumption I made. As to whether or not this Earth Spam should be banned through the MMR, this conversation is pointless because the updated MMR bans earth spam in the exact way this thread describes it.

 

Earth spam is already against mmr ._. Why did I waste my time on this thread

Right here

 

not sure who asked for ur input

but on a more relevant note: i think we need to look at the bigger picture. elf needs buff , if ur a good player like myself u dodge the earth element every time. i mean you could have someone target the elf bc the elf player is eZ credits (especially if it's snowbreak(jk luv u)), like how archers get targeted when some1 steals. i mean don't get me wrong, i still become hiv+ every time i'm trying to wall climb and i get slammed to the ground w earth, but i am an elf player and earth element is like the only other relevant part of elf kit (other than shield and wind)

 

@November excessive use of earth spell is already against mmr. So, do you want tighter restrictions on this rule?

 

Elf can fly with wind, block shots and use earth. Elf is mainly used for offense and offensive supports, but with this use of earth is can be viewed defensively too, which should be a very viable thing, due it its movement disrupter, good mobility, pure element and earth element.

On a serious note people are saying earth spam should be limited at 4-5. If you're incapable of dodging at least 1 elf shot after 4-5 of them on a chain you should probably try to get better. I am an awful minecraft player and I can do that.