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Forum activity & Staff Applications

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by EmperorTrump45, Jun 18, 2018.

?

Streamline requirements for staff applications?

  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. Lord_Roke

    Lord_Roke Forever the Forums Watchdog
    Retired Staff

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    This will be my longest post lately...

    Good forums activity is a requirement, but not such a strict one that you can only become a staff member with it. If you excel in other areas, we might let sub-par activity slip. An example I had to cite way too often already: Cuddled. She was barely active on the forums when she was accepted but turned out to be an amazing staff member.

    Yes, the whole thing is unappealing. However, what is the point of a trial time on HG right now? You would barely be able to play, moderate and gather experience because there are no HG players - so the entire trial time would basically be pointless. As far as I am aware aefrogdog is active in the CTF team scene so letting him do his trial time on CTF seemed logical.
    I'm also generally not in favor of handpicking people because it means that the community and the largest part of the staff team get no chance to voice their opinions and possible concerns. If you are aware of a staff applicant breaking some rules, how are you supposed to notify us about this if they never make an application?

    There is no specific point because there are various factors of varying importance that play into this. And just because we can not define that point does not make the forums activity requirement obsolete. It is still important for staff applicants to be aware that - even if they don't excel in any area - they can be accepted by meeting all requirements.
    We are being less strict on forums activity exactly because of what you said: There is currently less activity going on and it would be absurd to ask for activity when it is basically just spam.

    In the past I would have clearly answered this with "only if they meet every requirement". However, as we are currently trying to make lots of changes to Brawl we don't just need people who can moderate chat, but also staff members who are very dedicated and knowledgeable about servers, have ideas and the motivation to create game concepts - which can be a tedious process as it takes forever to balance out all interests.

    The denial for TS inactivity was given on September 5th 2017 - so over 9 months ago. Other factors that were mentioned in the denial also played a part in this decision. In the mean time, we switched from Slack to Discord, so TS3 has become even more obsolete and we definitely wouldn't deny someone for this again. This can also be seen by the fact that the denial of Unifier's last application had nothing to do with TS3 inactivity.

    This thread is the prime example of why it takes so long to decide whether an application should be accepted or denied. On the one hand, we have the applicants who expect to be judged objectively and quickly and our interest to have active staff members. On the other hand, we have the responsibility to only give this privilege to players we can fully trust with all the powers that come with it and also the need to treat all applicants equally.
    After all, staff members get a lot more trust than community members and could - if they are malicious - cause a lot of damage. A prime example of this is a recently resigned staff openly admitting to hacking,

    If we deny someone who is a bit below our requirements or someone we do not see characteristically fit for the position of a staff member, we are at the risk of being flamed, threads like this (more aggressive threads - not targetting this one specifically) being created and community members feeling treated unfairly. If we accept the same applicant, we risk letting someone into the staff team who abuses his power - and it is a lot harder to demote a staff member than all of you think. To do so, we would need concrete, clear and undeniable evidence of wrongdoing which barely ever exists.
    Whatever we do, we take a risk. So we try to gather as much information about applicants as possible and even then it is a decision that needs to be made carefully. Which takes time I - admittedly - don't always have.

    Oh, and we are at the risk of having to write extensive responses to threads about promotions/denials. :wink:

    That is why he was accepted as a CTF JMod, not as a HG one. The future of HG is uncertain, so for now he will be staff on CTF.

    This is not correct; excelling in one category is not enough. After all, all staff members need to be capable of moderating and helping players. Being sub-par in one area can be overlooked, but not in all but one.

    Again, this is not our standpoint. All areas are taken into account, they may just be weighted differently.

    Being able to code would make you a DEV, it barely plays a role for JMod applications.

    Knowing you, @Admiral_Mas0n, you will probably reply to this with an even longer post, taking apart everything I said. Please just be aware that I will likely not have the time to respond with an even longer post (as much as I would like to) and don't mis-interpret me not replying as disregarding/ignoring your arguments.
     
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  2. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Minimum Brain Size

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    fair enough - seems like i knew less about the situation than I thought I did :v
     
  3. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Actually, no. I agree with a lot of what you said and I think you make multiple good points (what I disagree with I'll probably reply to later). Thanks for the response/clarification

    True. But when she applied she still had 3-4x more activity than aefrog. @Fista_Cupz is another example, with comparable activity to Cuddled. Then again standards for forum activity are ambiguous and as you said, the forums are dead.

    As I understand it aefrog was accepted to have a front seat in changes to HG for a possible reboot of the server, since he's already doing a bunch of stuff on it (according to Tom). The pink tag is a means of making that happen, so it wouldn't be pointless if he was accepted or handpicked for HG instead of CTF. What seems pointless, to me, is accepting him for CTF when he's going to be transferring to HG as soon as possible - since that's his priority.

    The community is already a nonfactor in staff application decisions, which should always be the case because when community members could reply to staff applications half the responses were toxic and the other half were stupid. The only feedback that should matter are from people who are already in some staff capacity, especially mod+ like yourself. Even the polls don't really matter. aefrog was accepted with 51% +1's and he'll probably be a great staff member. Flavorous had 36% +1's and he ended up being a build mod. Gauging community opinion is useful but not relevant, especially since if you are going to handpick they'd have to be someone you already believe to be competent

    Speaking of which, if you know someone is competent then you also know their character. That's why Tom was handpicked after he resigned over a year ago - you already knew (or Cuddled did) that putting him through the application process (again) was a waste of time. Same thing for Rhoske

    Okay

    Then this should be made clear in the requirements thread (see below)

    Funny, yin said the exact same thing in a similar conversation a year ago.

    Why should that matter? Sure I wouldn't have posted this thread if aefrog hadn't been accepted but that's mainly due to his app being accepted under circumstances differing from almost every app that's been accepted in the past.

    As far as flaming and drama are concerned - that's always going to happen. Even if you do everything right on whatever someone is going to either have an issue with it or create an issue about it. I've made a lot of those threads or started drama about things over the past 3 years, that's how I know.

    I think that's fair and I agree. But a lot of apps which are not controversial have taken a lot of time to be denied, which is mainly what I'm referring to. And even controversial apps, it's unreasonable for it to take 2 months or more for an acceptance or a denial. If anyone is that controversial they shouldn't be accepted to begin with until they've cleared things up on their end.

    That was a risk? I thought you enjoyed this

    But he's not even applying to be CTF staff. aefrog being staff is simply a means to an end of helping out on HG without the constraints of being a community member. It seems like an HG rework must be pretty certain if multiple staff members are working on it, including him (per his app).

    That's a better way of phrasing it. What I'm getting at with this thread is an update to the requirements thread for staff. Anyone who reads it (no one does, but if they did) is going to be under the impression that you need to meet the requirements in all areas, when that clearly isn't true. That is, the weighing you're referring to should be made more clear

    Also it looks like I did take your post apart even though I agree with most of it. Oops
     
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