Soldier Wall-climb Nerf

Code:

public void onClimb(PlayerInteractEvent event) {
    if (event.getBlockFace() == BlockFace.UP)
       // wall climb
    else
      // not a wall climb
}

 

lol, rekt.

 

... Oh.

Yep. xD

 

I don't really know what to suggest other than what is stated above. It's an idea and I see why the mods want Pyro nerfing which it sort of does but id rather not get into a debate about it.

 

@Nohox @Hanatamago_San @aRandomBob157 @Quarrelt

 

Check out my pyro rework

 

I remember we had discussed a solution like this before regarding soldier, since there have been many similar ideas in the past. I myself don't see a problem with this solution, but I'm a very relaxed person when it comes to class debates (I usually don't care about whatever is unless it's an extreme change to gameplay that we won't be able to adapt to). I believe it's obvious why Soldier and Pyro should be changed at the same time (so that one or the other doesn't become OP and break games), so I don't think that's a debatable issue.

 

We

Well, there are limits to where you can place turrets/teleporters/cakes. So basically you can't right click on certain blocks. Maybe you can do this for soldier? Idk.

 

I definitely like all the suggestions here, and I know some of it was already in the works. I especially like taking out ground climbing; that's something I've always vouched for.

However, ideally Pyro and Soldier should be changed at the same time. To further explain Bob's (and most of the other mods') perspective on the situation, Soldier is a simple, easy fix, whereas Pyro could be a complete rework, and could severely affect the class. So for that reason, Pyro can't be changed without fixing Soldier because, if we're being real here, a new Pyro will end up being a nerfed Pyro, especially if the instakill is removed. Because of that, the new Pyro belongs in a metagame with a weaker/less mobile offense, which this Soldier tweak leans towards.

So basically, yeah, it's fine to change Soldier and not change Pyro, although ideally it's nice to do both at the same time so that Soldier doesn't have a waiting period of being weaker compared to current Pyro, but it's not detrimental like it would be the other way around. Other offensive classes (mainly Chemist, Ninja, Medic) can patch the hole that a weaker Soldier might leave, but with Pyro, not a chance. It's too deeply ingrained into any viable core defense.

Personally, I don't think it'd be the end of the world if a simple tweak like this gets added to Soldier before Pyro gets changed, but it's still nice to have both at the same time. Having this finalized and coded for later could still be done ahead of time, but Pyro definitely needs more attention before anything big happens.

 

I made an entire pyro rework and I also wrote about the ground climbing removal.

 

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Just because its the only ability doesn't mean it doesn't need a limit. Im all for this nerf as long as Pyro gets the appropriate changes, but would not want to see ground climbing removed as it would make capping harder than it already is for Soldiers. I want to see Soldiers ability to easily climb back to base nerfed while preserving whatever flagroom capabilities it has.

 

Of course you don't like my reworks. Mhm.

 

No I don't think it should be removed because like another person said on this thread, soldier is meant to get the flag and get out of there.
I don't think soldier has ever been changed and its one of the older classes on CTF. Without wall climbing, soldier is useless because full iron isn't always the best protection for pvp battles especially with heavies. Capping as a soldier would basically be useless and a failure more times than not. Personally, I think if soldier had no more wall climbing or a limit, I'd probably start heavy capping because it will feel like pretty much the same thing.
Sure, wall-climbing is annoying but how is a full iron person suppose to get the flag in a flag room of heavies, pyros, and dwarfs. Most of the time I have to rely on wall climbing to get me out of there was quick as possible because I'll be close to death anyway just getting the flag in that mess.
I've never experienced problems fighting other soldiers as well. If you're actually good at defending, you can block them from getting out (Same with ninjas). I've had little trouble with people who "fly" across the ground by ground wall-climbing but it isn't too hard if you stand below them every time they fall. Which is why killing people who ground wall-climb are too easy to kill because when you wall climb, it launches you so far in the air you cannot reach the block below you without almost or actually touching the ground first. Now, if soldier did not launch people into the air so high with just one hit, then it would be a problem, because then they could probably "Fly" because they would be able to keep contact with the ground without falling first.
But still, at how far they would be able to reach the block with their sword, you can reach them with your own sword because you're 2 blocks closer (or one, pardon me if I'm wrong) making it not so hard to kill a soldier who's "floor wall-climbing".
I've never seen any problems with soldier and I don't believe it should be changed to a wait limit. Unless the wait limit is short. Like I said, I rely on wall-climbing to not die in a situation with dwarves, heavies, pyros, and whatever else is there on defense at the time. I also have to rely on it when I'm crossing the map to my own flag to get on structures to get away from ninjas(Or whatever else is chasing me) which doesn't always work. I'm sure if there was a problem with the soldier class, MCPVP would have changed it a long time ago, not like 3-4 years after the game was created.

 

You're overreacting over putting a limit on something that was infinite before. It adds a new depth of strategy to the class that wasn't in the game before and should have been. If you switch to heavy capping because "it feels no different" then you simply adapt to the new meta.

You're talking as if Soldier wont ever have wall climbing, which doesnt aid your argument.

Also, if you havent noticed almost nothing happened for over a year, and the people running MCPVP before then had little information on whats up with CTF. Times change and people change their opinion over time.

 

I definitely agree with it being limited, regardless of it being the only ability. That being said, the limit should prevent spamming, but still have a comfortable range. Ideally, a soldier shouldn't have any problem climbing up the whole building in Waterfall. Besides that, and I don't remember seeing this mentioned, the regen rate on the ground should be quick enough to not make it a burden. Hopefully it should be more like putting a height limit on things than restricting it with an annoying cooldown.

 

To be completely honest I would like to see that code. Cuz the admins really do not know much about ctf lol

 

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I'd rather we implement more ways to counter rather than basic limits. Soldiers ability to wall climb is a rather fun and unique feature that I liked a lot when I first joined this and I believe having more ways to counter it would keep it balanced while still making it as fun as it is currently.