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Why does heavy counter pyro?

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Netflikx, Dec 29, 2016.

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  1. Netflikx

    Netflikx Well-Known Member

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    Today I played in a ctf match (woah!) for the first time in a long while. I was supposed to play ninja and stuff but ended up on pyro. So I'm playing and like, buffed heavies 2 shot me when I can only 3 shot it? Like wtf riot- i mean brawl stop ruining the game. Anyway I found myself running from the heavy when i should be chasing it. Now now I know pyro has frenzy but honestly, I'm dead before I can even get it 1v1ing a buffed heavy. Heavy counters pyro because anyone that knows how to crit can kill a pyro as heavy better than a ninja can.

    Now, now, so I don't get yelled at from complaining and whining, I have to say suggestions!!! First of all, if we are looking to "preserve" heavy as the tank of the game and keep it as vanilla as possible, we have to remove buffs. That's right, I said it. Now, chemist should still be able to buff themselves, but honestly, if anything is gonna get changed at all, removing them is the way to go. You see the current "meta" ctf has is play anything with iron or diamond armor, get buffs, and win the game. If we remove buffs from the game, it will completely change everything! Which is kind of what we need, especially with upcoming class reworks, and I'll get to that later.

    A counter-argument I will get rid of quickly is that "buffs encourage teamwork", when it, ironically, does the opposite. You see soldiers and heavies with buffs don't need teamwork, because them by themselves is enough to get by without total support from the team

    Another way, which I'm sure people will disagree with, is to nerf heavy directly. By nerf I mean any sort of possibilities, from reducing it's armor, changing the sword to iron, giving it slowness, etc. But this doesn't fix anything because everything else is getting buffs and will just make heavy useless which is what we don't want.

    Now, why does this matter, and what does it have to do with the upcoming class reworks? Well, now that necro is reworked, and soon to be dwarf I assume, I'm sure we are all excited to possibly see it being played in matches. Well if this ctf "meta" (sorry its just hard to think of ctf actually having a meta) keeps as it is, there's not gonna be any room for it. Teams have already begun making beefier defenses churning out heavies and soldiers on defense. Which... if continues... will turn into a FULL TANK META AND NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF GAMES LIKES THOSE.

    TL;DR: buffs should be removed from the game don't complain look at my reasoning and stop being lazy ****wit.
     
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  2. CommunistBelgian

    CommunistBelgian Well-Known Member

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    Heavy is broken overall
    I hope it'll be fixed soon
     
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  3. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    You have some valid points in this thread. I agree with what you mean but I'm not sure if it's the right way to go, perhaps nerfing the buffs could be good.
     
  4. CommunistBelgian

    CommunistBelgian Well-Known Member

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    or instead of nerfing things again, try buffing stuff
    that might work
     
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  5. 19Cameron91

    19Cameron91 Well-Known Member

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    Heavy's not the problem. Pyro was nerfed, and it's armor is very weak.

    Maybe we could give pyro back it's instakill ability, maybe?
     
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  6. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Ninja and necro were just buffed? Useless comment.
     
  7. 19Cameron91

    19Cameron91 Well-Known Member

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    How was ninja buffed recently?
     
  8. Netflikx

    Netflikx Well-Known Member

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    through this thread i said that chemist was the problem, and its buffs. And as much as I do want pyro's instakill back, it will never happen so it's hopeless to argue that.

    I don't think there is any nerfing that can be done to the buffs. Strength 1 and Speed 1 is the minimum. And removing 1 or the other won't actually change much.

    What is there to buff to counter this strategy? I do like with the whole "just buff everything and nothing will be op" mindset, but there's nothing we can buff to counter this. Pyro can not be buffed effectively without another complete rework to counter this, these classes are already a counter to ninja, and assassin is straight up situational.
     
  9. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Sharp 4 now is 5.
     
  10. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    The title should be "why does heavy counter everything" ://///
     
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  11. 19Cameron91

    19Cameron91 Well-Known Member

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    Ranged classes can give heavies trouble as long as the player is a good shot.
     
  12. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    Heavies can give ranged classes trouble if they can get behind them! The only class that could possibly have a chance of getting out of a heavy ambush is mage, but since buffed heavy 2 shots mage with crits, that isn't likely to happen.
     
  13. 1337Noooob

    1337Noooob Active Member

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    My issue with buffs is how they last forever. A max-duration buff pot lasts for such a long time that a buffed Heavy can just solo everything for a solid 2-3 minutes. If buffs only last 10 seconds at a time (to compensate for this, give the chemist more buff pots), then Heavies have to rely on teammates to buff them. Once they start to rely on teammates, you can turn those supports into targets. Dead Chemist = No Buffs for Heavy = Crisis Averted.

    There could be teamwork in having a Ninja blind the Heavy and knock it away from the Chemist while you have another teammate kill the Chemist or at least scare them off so they can't be near the Heavy. And then there could be counterplay like having a Ninja on the same team as the Heavy to watch for potential threats trying to separate the Heavy and Chemist. This way, buffed Heavy can still be a powerful force while still having counters that can be achieved through teamwork.
     
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  14. CrossBoone

    CrossBoone enjoy life

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    Heavies with buffs can jump crit the recently nerfed pyro and kill them way to easily.
     
  15. Magnificent

    Magnificent Dallas Fuel

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    abandon ship
     
  16. Pizze

    Pizze Well-Known Member

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    class balance ;D
     
  17. Cardonation

    Cardonation CTF JMOD | CMS Leader

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    Remove Heavy Crits
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. 19Cameron91

    19Cameron91 Well-Known Member

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    Well, was heavy a problem when pyro could instakill?
     
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  20. pandanielxd

    pandanielxd its panda daniel

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    Pyro got reworked not nerfed. The instakills have been removed because Chap wanted them to be removed when he was owner.
     
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