Idea BUFF ASSASSIN

If we make assassin OP it will be unfair for everyone else. Just like mage

 

the words instakill debuff always active just makes me think this is a terrible idea instantly. 1 shot by everything, that's just going to be so annoying to play, I doubt anyone would want that.

 

Assassin is still very effective at offensively clearing a flagroom. Most of the time the defense isn't standing in a single place blocking, so the Assassin is fairly strong if it gets into the flagroom.

What in the world are you thinking? It would be better just to remove Assassin completely. Ninjas spam eggs: boom Assassin is dead. Medic spams webs: Assassin is dead. Elf arrows: dead. Assassin would become utterly useless, way more so than what you claim it is now.

 

It feels like you mixed pyro, soldier, and old assassin, while making it as useless at defending itself as medic without sharpness 1 on their sword. No one is going to want to play a class that's a glass cannon, purely because the veterans will go for more objective play and the noobs will just be after kills. Either way, I think this idea needs a lot of work, but I commend you for the idea! Keep it up! :3

 

Worry about Creative more imo

 

It would become impossible to recover as Assassin. A couple of Ninjas could stand near the flag carrier and throw eggs. An Assassin could not even come close to the flag carrier. What about if a Pyro uses frenzy? It would light the Assassin on fire, and the Assassin would die due to a single tick of fire damage. As for a counter to turtling, no. With turtling there's a lot of people defending. If the Assassin could be killed by a simple Ninja egg, there's no way it could get into the flagroom and hit anybody more than 1 time.

 

is this because you need help killing more people

 

Assassin is fine right now, you can always surprise the flag carrier or fake using your assassinate to get them to try hitting you but then you can actually assassinate them then.

 

So when I first saw this post yesterday, it was getting late and I didn't really have the time nor the energy to respond with a lot. I woke up this morning to find out the idea had been changed and buffed, and I hoped coming from an assassin main it would be a useful and balanced rework of the class which would solve the problems the class has. Unfortunately, I read this and found it not to be the case. I looked up in the problem section and found assassin is a terrible class at recovery? Assassin has some issues and can be underpowered in certain situations, sure but not at recovery. unless the player is constantly blocking it's going to be vulnerable at some pont and is going to be hard pressed to stop a decent assassin unless it has support, even moreso if the assassin has support of it's own. Far from useless, it has saved games both in regular games and in team matches, and to say it's useless is ridiculous. Nevertheless, I still held out some hope that maybe this kind of inaccuracy wouldn't be a running theme in the rework. I then read exactly what the rework did again.

2.5 hearts of true damage means it takes 4 shots to kill a player minimum, 3 if you crit (more than once). 4 is a 3 shot minimum, 2 if you crit. Any class with steak adds at least another 2 or 3 hits to this. Powerful offense that favours the killing of bulkier classes, yeah I could get behind that. It's a decent recovery ability. doesn't really give you any burst recovery like assassin has in the current meta but it does do damage. You're obviously making it weaker in this scenario but removing the blocking. This is obviously a nerf to it's damage output that has come previously.

Speed 3? Again, something that wouldn't necessarily be something terrible on it's own. Faster than anything, even ninjas. I don't really like that fact, I've always seen ninjas as the faster thematically. However, other people could see differently and you'd probably get away with it. That is because after all, assassins are supposed to be light, and mobile.
Where this begins to fall apart is of course the next few parts of the idea:

Substitute is more a ninja tactic than assassin is thematically. A ninjas double, a smokescreen etc. It's all a distraction to allow a ninja to stay hidden and stealthy in the real world. It's not an assassin thematically that just carries substitutes around. Sure, gameplay-wise it might be able to do a bit more (although not a lot more given it vanishes in 5 seconds or after the assassin hits something), but this rework is slowly but surely making the class look more like a ninja, with stealth (invisibility), relatively high damage output and mobility. Assassin needs to distinguish itself from ninja, and that's not what's happening right now. Still, there could be something that redeems this, so let's keep looking.

..No fall or fire damage? I mean, sure? It fits the old assassin with assassinate because otherwise they would die in 1 hit to either, and wouldn't be able to pull off their attack. With that said, let's be a bit realistic here and say that I doubt thematically either of these make any sense on an assassin. Of the 2, no fall makes more sense, as highly mobile assassins would probably be masters of parkour and would be able to fall from higher heights without serious injury. However, assassins are still human, and no fall damage from something like the clocktower (clocktower IV) is certainly not going to be something you just walk away from. If each block is 1m high, you're not walking away from a fall thats a few dozen metres high, it's just not going to happen. Fire damage is even less believable. Assassins need to be light and mobile, they won't be wearing the heavy metal armor of a soldier. They're gonna be wearing light cloth armor if anything. I don't know about you, but I doubt that kind of armor is very fire retardant. The fact is, when using both of these with assassinate, they had a purpose in stopping the assassin from dying to things they shouldn't die from, but to have them permanently doesn't make any sense.

Now, we come to what is inevitably the thing which makes this whole class idea fall apart, the half heart idea. This is just a straight up terrible. It makes almost every other ability in this class look meaningless. Sure, it can do decent amounts of damage on a hit, sure it can avoid falling to it's death with some miracle, but it is 1 hit by absolutely everything. On average, you need to get at least 3 hits off before being hit at all. 3:1 ratio, that's ridiculous and this is the lowest figure. With a heavy flag carrier, you're looking at 4-5 hits even with crits (assuming crits still happen, which given this reworks aim they probably work like pyro so this will probably end up on the higher end), against something that could kill you in 1. You're going to have to be a pvp god even with speed to kill a flagcarrier like this even on your own. Of course, CTF is a team game and so more than likely you'll be dealing with a group of people, any of of whom can kill you with 1 hit. You wouldn't have time to land any hits on the enemy, you'd be instakilled before you got to the flagcarrier. This is an even worse idea for recovery when you put into perspective that most flagbearers are going to choose to hide in closed areas because of the threat of an archer headshot. For an assassin, this would be hell on earth as it removes their mobility. The only thing they could do is rush in, and would die instantly as one player hit him as soon as he walked in the entrance. This is slightly better than yesterday (hooray at least eggs won't kill me now right?) but it still doesn't change that this change would make assassin obsolete.

So given all that, what do I think about this rework? I think it's nothing short of a total disaster. It's essentially a weaker ninja in terms of damage output, stealth and mobility (speed 3 does not overcome enderpearl). Some of the problems you've put forward aren't true, and even if they were, you've just made them worse. I don't care if I get automatic flag recovery if I kill the bearer because I won't be able to hit the flag bearer without some other player instantly 1 shotting me. 1 ninja would quite literally stop every assassin on recovery being able to do anything. You've made this thing utterly useless at recovery because it has relatively low damage output compared to other classes and dies before it can do anything. If it was boring for you before, it certainly will be now given you can't be very useful to your team by being unable to survive virtually anything. Not joking this thing is a better scout or death fodder than it is a killing recovery machine, because then at least you can stall something with it's mobility, it won't get much damage off anyway. Hey, there is some good news though! It's 1.9 proof, not that anyone would play it. I don't know if you read my suggestion making guide, you might have been busy or whatever. I suggested asking yourself 4 questions before even writing a thread for your idea:

"Why is this idea necessary for the gamemode?"
"Is this idea clear, detailed and understandable to those in the community?"
"Does my idea fit in thematically with the gamemode?"
"Why is this idea better than other alternatives?"

If any of the 4 weren't answered, the idea wasn't ready. As far as I see it, this idea fails on at least 2 of those:
3. it's not thematic to the gamemode (fire resistance, falling from the sky is a-ok).
4. this is a worse ninja in pretty much every respect, meaning that is the better option.

There's also a case to be made for 1. as whilst this idea is necessary to fix 1.9, it makes other problems necessary to fix worse, not better. With my guide, this suggestion was not ready to be posted.

I get you're trying to help and have the best intentions @Rhos_. You wouldn't try to suggest something in such a detailed way if you didn't. The real problem with this is you just didn't do enough homework on what these changes might actually mean for the gamemode, and the result is, well this mess. Upshot: nobody is going to want to play this class rework (I asked a few assassin mains and they said they'd learn to main something else) and even if they did they'd find it utterly useless.
I would say -1, but -1000 does it infinitely more justice

 

Couple points.
1) you are savage af
2) I love that your response is longer than the OP
3) you hid insults in plain sight and used biting sarcasm, roundabout language, and over exaggeration to bring forth a comment that will be too vague to be punishable. Probs for that.
4) can we take a moment to realize that rhoske was probably just trolling us this entire time with this rework and we all took it seriously? Jokes actually on us.
5) if I had a mod honor to give I would give it my friend, but a winner will have to do for now. I'll come back to this one though. XD
6) you made me laugh hatder than I have all day (and I spent a good 3 minutes laughing my ass off in a skype call with yin lmao) so thank you for that
And lastly 7) you probably could've put this in a nicer way, but build needs your help a little more than ctf does, rhoske. Besides, you know a hell of a lot more about that and the build team than others. Leave ctf to the ctf mods. I know you mean well, but you just don't have the necessary knowledge to give accurate input. No biggie, we all kind of merge into all gamemodes (except me. I stay away from warz and war like they're the plague. Ask anyone. XD)

 

So, let's break apart this a little

This is going to be good

Firstly, invisible ninjas are not "impossible" to hit. They take damage from all range sources. Given the half heart this would mean insta-death for the assassin. You're encouraging, but not limited to: archers to bowspam, mages to spell-spam, elves to elf spam and pyros to spam their bow. Why? because anyone that sees a stationary decoy is going to know an assassin is close and will probably want to kill them. If you see a stationary player like that, you're going to instantly see that as a red flag. With half a heart you won't have time to take out one person at a time. If there's any more than 1 player you will die in less than 2 seconds. 1 hit is all it takes, and fighting more than one person is definitely likely to increase your chances of getting hit. You also have 5 seconds to distract someone, get around and hit them, that is NOT a lot of time. Enemy flag bearers aren't interested in killing, they're interested in keeping safe. They'd be running away, not towards that decoy. Using the decoy like that just alerts people to your presence. In that sense it's better to just go invisible (I'm getting a feeling of deja-vu here, something about ninja being superior).

No, it's not conceptually great at countering turtles. It is the very definition of the opposite. You'd get 1 hit off and be in the centre of about 7 people all hitting you at once, and that's assuming a team match turtle rather than in the regular game. Sure you'd get a hit, maybe even 2. The fact is you die so fast you don't have time to kill them. You've got half a heart!

Yes, they're carried over from current assassin, but only only on the assassinate not passive. This would make it able to counter pyro if not for the terrible half heart idea. If we are using assassin's creed as the design for this fall damage system then we should be using hay carts as places to negate damage, not just have them able to jump from any location and "miraculously" survive. Also just looking at the assassin's creed armor, it doesn't exactly look fireproof. Yes, this rework does force you to be stealthy, but only because any and everything can kill you instantly. This is stealth to the point of being underpowered and boring. Nobody is going to play a class that dies in 1 hit to everything unless it's got some serious benefits. This class rework lacks that.

Fashionista bit is irrelevant for theme since it still does essentially what it's meant to. Soldier class isn't that bad. Soldiers have been known to scale castle walls etc. in the past. Obviously this can't be perfectly translated to the game, you can't have soldiers throwing up ladders everywhere and equally grappling hooks aren't the most accurate thing for the theme setting. I can understand where that came from. Dwarf is arguably less thematically appropriate arguably than soldier, but does have it right in that it's heavily built, close range pvp as seen in most media. You also get the enchanted feel from dwarves being mythological creatures. In short, neither are too far out.

This rework on the other hand is a different story. I'd say that the fire and fall resistance are not appropriate on their own, but the fire works for the assassination because no expert assassin trying to pull that off would instantly die from that. Lava resistance is silly. We shouldn't be making that permanent because it doesn't fit the theme. Even if you still think all of these classes are completely unthematic, why the hell would add another unthematic class to the game? That is an excuse.

Agreed, asking the people that play CTF is a great way to understand what they want assassin to be like in a balanced way