Are mages too Overpowered?

Mage has almost no armor, chemist has way more armor and chemist gets 5hp pots so maybe give either mage then little more armor or more regen/higher regen.
And as ninja you can outcombo the regen ;3

 

That's could be necessary, but it doesn't take away the fact that it could theoretically heal itself until the end of time. I think that's a little rediculous and could use a nerf. The thing about armor is, mage has a counter for its bad armor. If people come at him, he can keep them at a distance with damage spell. This will prevent him from getting hurt, so strong armor isn't completely necessary for a class that can avoid getting hurt if he plays it correctly.

 

Yes, ninja is best

^ Thus. Mage is not OP and can be effectively countered with a good amount of strafing by any class.

Facts.

Yes, that's how combing works?

Excuse me?

Exactly except for the bold part. It's not easy to abuse, but it's easy to be a nuisance. Killing people isn't a breeze.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU and I actually have had plenty of success capping with age as long as I get decent support. It's all about combing freeze and lightning and praying there's no ore than 2 ninjas.

This.

EXACTLY. Skilled mages are very difficult to kill, but you can easily make the run away and retreat.

Or whack them with damage spell... or snowballs + pummel them to death lel.

False. The lightning spell is used in 3 contexts: The age is buying themselves time and space to recharge a heal spell, the lightning spell is the final move in a combo that knocks you off a ledge (rare but doable) or the spell is used when frozen to inflict damage. When lightning is used in the space context, a good mage will be strafing backwards, so you could probably just go around them at that point because the age is likely low on health.

Very true, aim is everything.

Exactly, aim is everything.

No, it's not uncommon for an unskilled mage, and the heal spell seems to recharge awful slowly when you're backed up against a wall by a heavy, but whenever you're fighting the mage it's always too fast.
Funny how that works.

OH HELL TO THE NO. Mage relies on that knock back to be a viable class. Mage can keep a flag carrier in front of them or at least slow them down on defense and when stealing can keep potential recoverers at bay with damage spell knock back. Flame slows them down further and ice stops them cold. The knock back is the consequence of being too lazy to strafe. Unless the mage has a helluva lot of practice, it isn't hard to strafe them.
and before you say that mages with a lot of practice are nearly invincible, that can be said for ANY PERSON WITH PRACTICE at any class.

See above rant.

The damage spell does not need a timer reduction considering even good mages miss damage spells like 1/4 of the time if strafing is used. I'd be ok if 5 heals were implemented if mage got diamond chest plate and boots.

Yes, the mage can keep them at a distance, but while strafing backwards! You're losing ground! Most mages are easy to deal with: go around them. To kill a well armored class, mage has to spend a lot of time and energy working on the class at the risk of getting destroyed if they don't maintain distance. Infinite heals are NEEDED because of how much damage a mage takes. 1 hit from a heavy is almost 1/4 health. A ninja is just as bad. Give me diamond boots and chest plate with protection 1 and 6 heals and I'll shut up.

 

What I meant to say in that bolded part was that a lot of people use mage to try to get kills and stuff that doesn't benefit the team, but essentially a good mage on offense can help guarantee a cap for their fellow teammates if they escort them, and a mage can essentially become a magnet for ninjas on defense in competitve matches, and mage is useful because it attracts more players in order to kill the mage and that takes the strain off of the carrier and their medic/medics. Essentially what I do when I see an assassin is lead my target and fire damage spells when they are strafing like crazy and they die before even coming close (works 90 percent of the time).

 

I never said remove the kb from the class entirely, I said remove it on all the spells except the one that its entire purpose is to act as kb.
Damage is meant to do damage, Flame is to set people on fire, Freeze is to freeze them, Heal is to heal, Lightning is to deal knockback.

 

I think that would screw mage over. It doesn't kill fast enough or have enough armor to be able to affect anything before dying.

 

I would just want mages knockback on left clicks to be removed. There's no reason a mage should be able to knock you back into range with regular left clicking and then continue to apply knockback with spells.

 

This is actually not the worst idea, and I'll +1 it, but it's honestly not super necessary. If you're close enough to mele as a mage, you're a. dead (probably) and b. doing it wrong

BRUH. BRUH. BRUH. No. The reason mage has knock back is to keep a safe distance away from its target. As of right now, a mage has to strafe backwards constantly to keep out of male range. And before you say mage shouldn't always be out of male range, mage can be three or four hit by a few classes and 5 hit by everything except medic. Mage has virtually no way of getting out of a corner, can't heal effectively at close range, and has way too high of a recharge time on lightning for removing knock back to be at all plausible. If this is done, you will break mage forever and I will make the storm I caused over banners look like a drizzle.

No, lighting is to deal excessive knock back. They're all to deal enough knock back as to allow the mage to stay out of male range if the mage can do 2 things: Hit every singe damage spell and strafe backwards. If a damage spell is missed or the mage doesn't move backwards, the other player will catch up to and kill the mage quickly because mage is so weak. Damage spell does little knock back. I don't think you really understand how difficult mage is to use period, much less to do something useful like recover, capture, or defend.

 

I used to main mage? I can firstly tell you that mage can be difficult to get kills with but it's not difficult for the most part to keep people away from you. (With the exception of ninja, lesser extent chemist and elf).

 

*facepalm*
If "getting people to leave you alone" constituted a good thing/success for you, you weren't doing it right. If I'm playing as Ninja, is my goal to "get people to leave me alone?" NO! It's to get people to not see me, steal the flag, and quickly capture it. Same goes for every class: Capture, kill, or defend is the goal and if you take KB off damage spell and flame spell it can't do any of those three under any circumstances. We'd have another useless class like elf, except mage doesn't have the redeeming quality of flight. No goddamnit, the skill curve to ninja is too low! I can do 70% of what experienced ninjas can do not having played CTF seriously in over a year. Point is: Mage is not about keeping people away from you. And if we take knock back off of damage spell, how the hell is mage supposed to capture or steal? Answer: it doesn't. So please, don't pretend like you know what it's like to play mage because if you did play it frequently, based on what you describe as "playing mage," you weren't that good.

 

lol you're funny

 

Triggered and funny are not the same thing

 

this was nessecary

Those days as mage man. Must've been rough with all those redeeming qualities of hard cc, unlimited healing, and massive damage.

just like Nam in '72

Yet the entire class is designed around crowd control?

Mage is a capturing class?

I thought it was supposed to dominate midfield, not the entire map.

Someday Syringe, you will realize that you are not the only person who knows "what it's like" to play Mage. Especially when you've been gone for the last 6 months

 

Dunno how much that happens nowadays, I'm assuming none.

tl;dr The way you look at Mage in a completely positive light with no flaws at all to the class is shocking to me.

Okay, you expect people to strafe around the Mage's spells when you're being attacked by one. Strafing makes you much slower compared to making a beeline right at the Mage. Much, much, slower, especially combined with the fact that they're walking backwards and all of their spells slow you down one way or another. Every time you're hit by a Damage Spell, you lose about half a block of distance. Combined with how fast it recharges if at least half of the hits land it buys more than enough time for the Mage. Flame Spell sets them on fire, which deals damage over time, which slows them down even more. Freeze halts their progress for a solid 3 seconds or so. Lighting sends them all the way back. When I'm playing Chemist I can barely reach them at all, even with Speed I, Regen III and a massive health pool which gets drained very quickly. And the free classes? They don't stand a chance.

I get that Mage is a 1v1 class and is meant to pick off people or at least heavily damage them without needing to go back for more resources. However, the two main classes people complain about nowadays (Mage and Archer) are both classes that deal massive amounts of damage while not taking damage at all. Heal Spell can buy the mage time while they're knocked further away by enemies and resets the whole process until the enemy runs out of health. Archers shoot enemies before they get close. Are all of the people who play these classes blind to the fact that they are impossible to kill?

The thing, in my opinion, that keeps Archer slightly more tolerable is that its resources don't refresh themselves every time you get back to them. As well, they have one purpose: to kill. Like you mentioned above, every class is supposed to defend, kill, or offend. Mage does all three. While not the best at offending or defending, it's still viable. Lightning to keep enemies off the flag post. Freeze after they steal. Damage if they try to escape. Heal your teammates afterwards. As for offence, they can throw back anyone behind them. They don't run out of healing. They can freeze people behind them. Sure Assassins are a thing but that's just one weakness.

Can you please go and fight against some Mages and not as a Mage? Especially as any free class, but as any class that isn't Ninja or Assassin would be fine.

 

As a mage dude ( you are not the only one who mains mage here ) I would be for reducing not removing the knockback on damage, and flame. If that's the case then the recharge time for the lighting spell should be reduced. And if you have the health and you are cornered, all you have to do is strike the lighting spell down to the ground and the guys who are cornering you will fly up and away or just fly backwards giving you time to escape the corner. And it's pretty hard to get an experienced and skilled ninja away from you even if you use your heal they get the heal effects too and even if you are regenerating health, if the ninja can contiouslly hit you, then you die. In comepitive matches, I would always just either play support for the flag carrier as a single experienced mage can become a really good support for the flag carrier or you can go defence. Buts it's really up to the map and the player to decide if the mage is a significant influencer in the match but mage is a very versatile class it can be used for all three roles, but again the best roles for a mage are dependent on the map and the skill level of a mage. Buts is always nice to become good at other classes as well. I think what most people get wrong about mage is that like other classes it requires skill and aim duh but what it requires most is good reaction time and the ability to stay cool under pressure because you might be trampled by like 3 heavies and ninjas (its happened to me before and I stayed alive because of that attribute) but I think that mage becomes harder to play when you are focused on playing for the team and not chasing people for kills. Just my thoughts

 

LMFAO I suck at mage now so I can't use it. I tried with heavy and ninja the other day. Most mages are very easy.
Pre response rant:
Mage is the LEAST of CTF's problem. We don't need to water down yet another class that's "OP". You know what? I'd be all for making another class a hard counter to mage. Make elf take negative knock back from every mage spell. Make heavy unable to be lightning spelled because it's heavy and doesn't fly back. Make pyro melt mage's ice. Whatever. But across the board nerving mage is not the way to go.

"Okay, you expect people to strafe around the Mage's spells when you're being attacked by one. Strafing makes you much slower compared to making a beeline right at the Mage. Much, much, slower, especially combined with the fact that they're walking backwards and all of their spells slow you down one way or another. Every time you're hit by a Damage Spell, you lose about half a block of distance. Combined with how fast it recharges if at least half of the hits land it buys more than enough time for the Mage. Flame Spell sets them on fire, which deals damage over time, which slows them down even more. Freeze halts their progress for a solid 3 seconds or so. Lighting sends them all the way back. When I'm playing Chemist I can barely reach them at all, even with Speed I, Regen III and a massive health pool which gets drained very quickly. And the free classes? They don't stand a chance."

Your first statement that I have bolded shows exactly why mage isn't a problem. If a mage is strafing backwards, then, you know, walk the other way...? Unless the mage has the flag in which case wow a flag carrier that can defend itself. Not like every other class except medic does that. Your second statement that I have bolded is an exaggeration. If about half the damage spells land, that is a little less than enough to maintain safe distance while staring backwards with knockback. Someone who strafes with any skill will be hit by about half the spells. Further, you fail to account for the fact that a mage can't back up forever due to the finite nature of maps.
You say you can "barley reach a mage with chemist"
2 problems here:
1. Don't try and reach the mage. Ignore it. Go around. Mage is hardly the most annoying class that takes up map space with its abilities (looking at you engi, necro).
2. Chemist is probably the worst class you could use against mage. The speed boost isn't enough, the healing isn't steak, the weapon is limited in range and damage. Ninja and heavy are the best counters. Heavy is very difficult to stop for a mage, especially good ones (of which there aren't many).

"I get that Mage is a 1v1 class and is meant to pick off people or at least heavily damage them without needing to go back for more resources. However, the two main classes people complain about nowadays (Mage and Archer) are both classes that deal massive amounts of damage while not taking damage at all. Heal Spell can buy the mage time while they're knocked further away by enemies and resets the whole process until the enemy runs out of health. Archers shoot enemies before they get close. Are all of the people who play these classes blind to the fact that they are impossible to kill?"
First bold statement: That's what the class is good at, not necessarily what I like doing with it. I like getting the flag and defending but that's me.
Second one: NO. YOU DID NOT just compare mage to an install class. Mage is NOT the most complained about class. That'd be engineer. Then maybe necro. Dwarf needs a rework. And them mage might need a retooling to be better offensively.
Third one (heal spell): To buy enough time to heal (because the recharge on that spell is an eternity and a half) the mage has to get significant distance. Combine that with the fact that mage has weak armor and the heal spell often isn't enough when taking damage.
Fourth: A highly skilled ninja is nearly impossible to kill. A highly skilled chemist is nearly impossible to kill. Both of these classes can be outnumbered in a flag room an make it out fine. A highly skilled mage is nearly impossible to kill, yet has none of the offensive contribution. Don't like the fact that a class is really good at defense? Grow up. Dwarf is much more of a problem now than mage ever was, is, and will be. Engineer too.

"The thing, in my opinion, that keeps Archer slightly more tolerable is that its resources don't refresh themselves every time you get back to them. As well, they have one purpose: to kill. Like you mentioned above, every class is supposed to defend, kill, or offend. Mage does all three. While not the best at offending or defending, it's still viable. Lightning to keep enemies off the flag post. Freeze after they steal. Damage if they try to escape. Heal your teammates afterwards. As for offence, they can throw back anyone behind them. They don't run out of healing. They can freeze people behind them. Sure Assassins are a thing but that's just one weakness."

Bold statement 1: Stop coming back.
Bold statement 2: Stop it. Go get help. Mage does not offend. Mage is trash on offense. When is the last time you saw a mage capture the flag? Exactly.
Bold statement 3: Pyro arrows. Medic webs. Ninja sword. Medic healing. Mage is less effective than all of these. So stop. Mage is a jack of all trades master of none on defense and because of the nature of the class where it has to strafe backwards to avoid damage, it's limited to a support role on defense and that's it.

Now let's break down the absolute disaster of logic and reasoning that is your justification for how mage is somehow a viable class on offense:
"they can throw back anyone behind them." Tell that to a ninja with an enderpearl or an assassin with speed will you? I've told them to stay off my back the few times I even make it out of the flag room alive and they don't listen too well.
"They don't run out of healing." Suuuuuper useful when a heavy and ninja are teaming you in a corner and you're waiting on heal to recharge.
"They can freeze people behind them." This is a good point and I'll give you this one. But since when is there just one person recovering? And since when is that at all useful in the flagroom?

In all, knock back is an essential part of keeping mage a viable class. People really don't appreciate how weak mage is and how long it takes to recharge heal. Now, I'll give anyone the unlimited heals argument, but that doesn't really help much when the class is as weak as it is. As I said, give me diamond chest plate and boots or at least enchanted iron and we can talk steak or limiting heal spell usage. Give mage a viable mele weapon and we can talk reducing knock back. but if you're going to roll up in here and say "waaahh mage is op it killed me when i was trying to steal it has knock back waaaaah" know exactly how logically flawed and damaging that argument is.

 

Too tired to read your stream of opinions tonight, will respond tomorrow by editing this post.

@Krazygorilla

 

First, I respect your opinion respect, you're a damn good mage.
"I would be for reducing not removing the knockback on damage, and flame."
Someone call CNN. We have a reasonable person here. Rare sighting.
In all seriousness, I'd be for stripping flame of KB because it does basically nothing in the first place. Damage I'd be less okay with because of it's limited range and recharge. IF there were a commensurate change to range (increase) and recharge time (decrease) I'd definitely be okay with reducing knock back. Removal in a non starter with mage's weak armor.
"If that's the case then the recharge time for the lighting spell should be reduced." Not sure this would help, I'd be more in favor of more armor or a reduction in the heal spell recharge time.
Also, other readers please not the two very good points Doggies made which I bolded.

I have a functioning memory, thank you, and I can in fact remember what happened a year ago. And most people who know "everything" about mage played it for 10 minutes and decided that they were an expert. s/o to my man Doggies who actually, you know, plays mage and is good. I'm not going to bash someone who's not talking out of their rear.

Before you respond tomorrow:
The question was rhetorical. I'm sure Krazy has done it before (Gratz BTW if you have Krazy) but it's not often done and is honestly too much trouble to even try most of the time. It's like a dwarf cap. Or an engi cap. Or a necro cap. Or a pyro cap. As zzz pointed out, mage lives at midfield. And now you'd like to take that away from mage too.

 

No one on this thread is claiming to be an expert with mage so not sure what you're talking about

I like how you decide who "plays mage" and "is good" with it and then use those assumptions to dunk on people when you don't agree with them. i.e. your reply to GalaThundR.

That said...

imo Mage is in a pretty good spot right now. However, a few changes would be nice. For instance, I'd like to see the knockback on the damage spell slightly nerfed as flame, ice, and lightning spells provide quite a bit of hard cc on their own. Would also like to see a light nerf on the heal as regen 5 every few seconds gives mage the largest healthpool in the game (any mage who uses their cc effectively, strafes, and stays away from corners is very hard to kill).

None of that is to make Mage so squishy it can't do anything or unable to get kills. It's just to tone down some of the classes' strengths a bit as I have encountered dozens of instances, in game, where the entire team gets trolled by a Mage due to the constant cc, damage, and healing (this is particularly an issue on maps which have open areas near flagrooms, spawn, etc. like Martian Outpost).

To compensate for the nerf on the heal I'd like to see the freeze duration on the ice spell extended by another 0.5-1 second(s) or so (either that or a decaying slow after being frozen) that way Mage can still maneuver out of corners and so forth.

I am not claiming to be an experienced Mage let alone a very good one with these changes. I'm terrible with the class as I have high latency which makes aiming spells more difficult than usual. But that's my view as someone who has played against a lot of Mages and been frequently frustrated by how difficult they can be to kill, especially when the Mage knows what they're doing (i.e. Doggies, Syringe, Prank, etc.).