Elf in matches

Agreed so far. It being the slowest moving projectile doesn't really matter that much though, (also aren't medic webs about just as slow? the purpose of it is the same: limiting mobility) (just saying though, engineers may even be more easily avoided than mages, anyway, I didn't want this to be about mage, I just like going off-topic anyway).

Agreed.
I'm making this point to ask how classes, respectively classes' abilities are being restricted.
Because to me, it doesn't seem to be just as straight forward as 'annoying and overpowered'.

If we were debating whether or not to introduce elf or not, your point would be valid. But in fact, we are not. Elf's already been introduced, and I don't mind that one bit.
My point wasn't: just ban elf because CTF worked without it before. The whole paragraph was to show how unimportant elf is for the great scale of a game. It certainly can have a heavy impact, especially if played by certain players, but is it needed just as much as archer and has the same impact? No.
I'd make the same point for the 'no instakill matches' which proved that current CTF without its instakill classes would be hell.

So, as an example opposites collide...probably the map with most advantage for medic's webs if going out one of the two stairs down. Isn't it a two-block passage? Can't any decent medic stop recovery there with two webs anyway? In normal matches I sometimes throw some more webs. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes accidentally. Most of the times, I don't achieve more with five webs than I did with two. Because I spammed, because I didn't control it. Most of the time when people webspam, it is under pressure anyway. Spamming (five) webs is often just an easier way to achieve about the same thing a somewhat decent medic achieves with two/three. Spamming webs randomly and getting people stuck is pretty much a thing anyone could do. Also on some maps with sponges, one web blocks much already. I see your point though, webs are highly situational and can be OP.

Maybe I'm wrong then. Still, what's certainly possible is to keep a player within a certain area, respectively just slow down a lot, enable a headshot more easily etc.

Agree to a large extent. Only banning it because it's not vital is indeed a terrible idea. Especially because you'd have to draw a line between vital & not vital. Sure you can find hundreds of examples showing that class X/Y is just annoying in certain situations. Like medics spamming webs, mage shooting down a tunnel, (ninja capping)...etc. etc. whatever. Point is that often, exactly such annoying situations are being restricted (yes not all of them obviously).
I still don't understand what makes earth element so extremly different from medic webs that it shouldn't be restricted.

Yeah, because one time we need to kill/distract/whatever you when we go in, another time when we go out. Chances are quite low that any player of us has enough health to do that twice. Yeah, I could. As you said you can't use the earth element when blocking. Me still being quite near the sponge landing point though, not really difficult to distract either. Not to mention we needed to focus on Brandino as well.
Sure, we definitely could've handled the whole situation better if looked back upon it now.
Skyworld is kinda flawed this way giving elf a whole lot of power easily (I say easily because earth element is an effect which affects an area, making it quite easy to cause a hell lot of problems by just shooting earth element arrows on a certain path and making it pretty much unusable)
Anyway, dwelling too long on this specific example (in which we're probably both biased) won't really help.

 

comparing elf earth element to medic webs is dumb, and earth element is restricted in tunnels already if I’m not mistaken. You’re comparing elf to other classes that it’s not like at all. Biggest difference between earth element and webs is that webs doesn’t need to have a delay between shots. You can put two webs down at the same time which is why you can’t spam. But you can only shoot one earth at a time, and like Miskey said he can’t shoot elements if someone is shooting at him or hitting him. Earth element was put into the game, to do exactly this. It’s not an offensive tool. It’s a defensive tool used to stop movement. If you restrict things for being like they are meant to do then restrict pyros from bowspamming, restrict ninjas from throwing an egg every 1-2 seconds, restrict soldiers from wall climbing so much, ect. Soldier wall climb is annoying, ninjas eggs are annoying, a bow that can deal 3 hearts plus fire ticks are annoying, but they are functions of the game. Earth element is a function of the game.

 

it's sometimes annoying how when im an archer they reflect my arrows

 

Yep.

I was mainly comparing elf's 'functions' to other classes 'functions'...
Anyway, there's really not that many classes you can compare anything to in CTF. Sure comparing elf as a whole to mage and archer would be far more logical. Elf isn't like soldier 'at all', yet wall climb and wind element can be compared easily, they're both methods of movement.
Same with the earth element, webs, freeze spell. Everything meant to restrict movement. Why shouldn't they be compared?

This is certainly a good aspect you're pointing out. It means that webs are more easily spammable. It doesn't necessarily mean that you can't spam earth element. Mage's damage spell has a cooldown, still it has a rule against spamming.

Hey, it's a function of the game, it's annoying, but it's a function of the game. I don't need any other reasoning to do other than to say it's a function of the game.
Guess what's also a function of the game: ingame chat. I'll start insulting people now because it certainly is a function of the game.
Dwarf is also a 'function of the game'. Why can't I play it in matches? Same with Engineer.
Ninja's eggs are also a function of the game: Why can't I throw more than five at once in matches then? Same with medic's webs. I have five in my inventory, why do I get called out in matches when I use more than three?


Also, I still don't really get it...
Medic's webs don't affect an area. One medic web affects one block. Yes, you can throw more than one, making a passage temporarily unusable. What bugs me though is that ninjas can pearl out of webs (no that itself doesn't bug me) and webs can be broken while a freeze spell of a mage blocks certain passages even more than webs. You can not break the ice nor is a ninja allowed to pearl out of it. I'd still argue that medic's webs aren't really overpowered. Or else the freeze spell should be considered almost more powerful (sure, who guessed, highly situational). With earth element, it's a different thing. Compared to medic's webs, which affect one block at a time and freeze spell, which affects one player at a time (with both freeze spell and medic's webs being able to block more than one player), elf's earth element affects an area directly. There's no need to hit the player directly for the effect to take effect. What would be so fundamentally wrong to also just restrict not only earth element 'spam' down a tunnel, but on any smaller path (less than 5/4 blocks as an example) as well?

 

I have 1 thing to say... getting stuck to the ground 500 times in a row as any class while recovery and other things completely beat me down unable to even jump to take KB and constantly shooting places players have to jump and causing infinite no jumping on a spot, isn't fun and slightly annoying but a general gameplay issue

 

But one cannot dodge the legendary 915??????

 

But that isnt what earth element is? There is so much time for delay, and in a match how much recovery can they have on you at one time with an elf. Elf is not viable on so many maps, but let’s go ahead and take away an ability that it is already losing on the rest of them. People want to limit elf to 3-4 consecutive shots but if you get hit by 3-4 shots in a row you’re he one that has a gameplay issue (not an insult to you). This has been a function of the game and has not been an issue until now, why are people making a deal out of it? Both these threads were causes of adv losing to anni anyways

 

I don’t understand the fixation on the idea that this would take away an ability with the class. It would simply limit it to a reasonable level that isn’t ridiculous but is still viable.

People have complained about earth spam in matches for quite a long time. I think that the recent match only exacerbated the issue.

I think this is a difficult issue to talk about and I think people are very rooted in their opinions. Perhaps, however, there is a middle ground. Ninja capping is allowed in MMR but in all matches for the last couple of years or so both teams agree upon rules to limit it. Every match has the availability of ninja capping until both teams agree on adding rules for it. Maybe if there were a new solid definition for what earth spamming is, two teams could agree on banning it during a match. In this way teams agree to unrestricted elf or don’t, so that people can’t complain about it so much.

 

I’m saying that this ability is not overpowered at all. I can see coming from your side, but it’s something that has to be dealt with. Earth element is one of the biggest elf abilities that can be *sucessfully* used. Pure element is useless to 99% of the community because hitting one target that you want to multiple times without being killed by someone is very hard. Water element is useless in matches except in a few very specific casss. Flying is great but elf being so squishy it’s not so great. So besides a couple people managing to fly around for a couple caps, elf is useless in matches. Why cripple it even more