Idea Ninja

ninja takes a lot of skill to be good at tbh and I hardly see it unbalanced
instead of an army of ninjas would u rather see an army of mages or engineers or assassins or dwarves?
or even an army of buffed defensive heavies lol

ninja beats heavy with fast recov potential with its mobility, otherwise heavy would be a harder wall to breach ngl

 

Chemist/Engineer main wants Ninja nerfed. Shocking

 

Inactive necro main judges...

 

I've said it before an army of any class is either annoying or overpowered. The class isn't broken, there's no need to nerf ninja or remove it. Ninja is a counter to classes like chemist, pyro, mage, and medic. Nerfing ninja, in a sense, would act as a buff to the other classes. Frankly, I'm fine with how it is rn.

 

So as a ninja main, I feel the need to just reply to this thread and explain my thoughts. Surprisingly, I do actually think ninja is op and requires a small nerf however first, I want to address some of your points.

“More than 50% of the people playing in each game are Ninjas.” I find it quite funny how you just make up a random statistic to try and back your point. While a lot of people do play ninja in casual CTF games, it definitely isn't 50%. Although, I do think multiple ninjas (anything higher than 3) is extremely overpowered especially against solo cappers who aren't communicating with anyone else.

“It deals too many damage to 100% of the classes available on brawl CTF.” In my opinion, I don't think ninja damage is the big problem with the class because it has such little protection itself. A tanky class such as heavy is also an ideal counter to ninja because it doesn't take much damage. “Chemist: 5-6 hearts/per hit” again, I don't know where you are getting these statistics from. Just seems like you are trying to make up ones to use as evidence. Chemist approximately takes 3-4 hearts of damage from a normal ninja hit.

“Ninja's could egg spam to the point where you can't even land a single hit after eating all your steak or used all your potions.” This is the only point I can say I would agree with. Eggs are definitely very overpowered and often allow less skillful pvpers to become good at ninja through egg spamming. A tactic involving eggs that some ninjas use is *egg*,*hit*,*egg*,*run*,*repeat*. While this may not be as effective at getting damage done as a classic aggressive, comboing ninja, it is far more annoying and is a cheap way of delaying people from getting to the flag while also getting damage done slowly.

“Server would make less money.” From what I've been told by @Miskey a while ago, ninjas are a large financial selling point for brawl and CTF. Nerfing it could definitely reduce the amount of purchases for it and therefore the server would get less income. I would guess ninja purchases are about 15-30% of all CTF class purchases but not sure about it if I'm going to be honest.

“It ruins the gameplay of the game itself.” Ninja is needed like this atm due to other class imbalances, it's a bit of a shame because ninja counters almost every class except maybe heavy and it'd be nice to see other classes being counters for different classes rather than 1 class countering all. Especially in the team scene, every good team has at least 1 ninja main that can roam up, kill the medic and get damage on the offence. It can also be used to kill the pyro and archer etc to support the offence. With a large ninja nerf you'd probably end up seeing matches end quicker because capping would be easier.

Now I've addressed all of your points, I would like to make a few suggestions for some basic ninja nerfs. I don't think all of these should be added but maybe 1 or 2.

Cool Down - After a ninja egg is thrown, they must wait 3 seconds before they can throw another.
Egg Bundle - Ninjas now get 3 eggs, they get an egg every 5 seconds. Capped at 3.
Slowness Removal - Slowness is no longer an effect given to a player if they have been hit or are in a radius of a thrown egg.
Pearling - When a pearl lands, it takes 2.5 hearts instead of 2.

 

I have to really disagree just because Ninja's take skill, you don't just egg spam and hit people, well some people do but that's not the point. I'm really bad at PVP and I can beat NInja's just fine. "You can't even make it halfway through the map with the flag", don't exaggerate too much, because there isn't always that many Ninjas.
Also, if you're trying to cap and Ninja's are the problem, try using chemist. If you don't have chemist, Soldier is a good kit to avoid them.

Also, I forgot to add that some people just can't hit the person so they need more eggs, using your ideas would ruin the reputation of Ninja, this is just my opinion.

 

People are trying to give you constructive answers as to why certain things on your thread are wrong, your effort of improving the gamemode is appreciated but please do accept criticism from those with a huge amount of playtime on the class such as @sportyman56

 

When people can't accept constructive criticism so by rate your posts funny (

 

While I agree that it can be annoying I don't think it's without reason. If a ninja is attacking you it's likely in response to something you're doing - you're holding a flag, you've got a good spot for your turret, you're about to assassinate a flagroom, whatever. In that sense it does exactly what it's supposed to do, which is countering one person for the benefit for the team.

Ninjas are a fairly balanced class, but since they're the best counter for your playstyle, you're going to feel like they're less fair than they actually are. In any case, high armor and nearby team members completely invalidate ninjas so I'd recommend taking advantage of that, either by choosing a different class or positioning yourself better.

 

I like the idea that @sportyman56 had. It should solve the reoccurring eggpam problem.

But I propose a somewhat similar idea. That the egg has the same "ability" as the ender pearl. Like this you would have the ability to throw only 1 pearl at a time. But the amount of pearls should still be capped at 10/live. So unlike the ender pearl there isn't an unlimited amount. This in combination with the grouped eggs.


I honestly don't know if something like this would work though

 

The cool down nerf with the egg bundle nerf (capped at 5 instead imo) stated by @sportyman56 is better than this idea.

Your idea isn't very useful imo because you could throw an egg at someone who is 1 cm away from you and you can still spam it, due to the fact that you're applying the enderpearl system for eggs. Once an enderpearl lands on whatever, you are able to use another. This is the same for eggs mentioned in your proposal: once an egg has landed, you can throw another.

Therefore, this proposal doesn't fix the spamming issue because you can still spam the eggs after they land, which could be 1 or 2 centimetres away for example.

 

This is objectively incorrect. Ninja is the most played class, but it's fairly far from a 50% playrate.

Most of these numbers are either incorrect or assuming the ninja is always critting, realistically ninja does less damage than you're implying. Ninja used to have sharp 6 and sharp 4, sharp 6 was deemed too strong, sharp 4 was deemed too weak. We're currently right in the middle at sharp 5.

This is just a skill gap thing. A good player rarely goes down to a ninja in a single life on any class but ninja/assassin. It normally takes at least two lives to kill a chemist, 3 for soldier, 4 for heavy, etc if the player knows what they're doing against a ninja at the same skill level as them.

Ninja accounts for a massive percentage of CTF revenue, I can't say how much for obvious reasons, but yeah. The reason players buy ninja first and often only buy ninja is because the class is incredibly enjoyable to play and has high credit output. This means that once a player has ninja they can grind the rest of the classes by earning credits.

So the idea is to nerf a strong class that accounts for a massive revenue share to make the game more enjoyable for people who don't know how to play against it? Most of the statements you're making here aren't supported by anything at all or are just exaggerations.

Ninja had sharpness 4 in the past and it was deemed too weak. Heavy and soldier are extremely strong in the current meta, and the combination of egg and sharp 5 is one of the things that keep them in check.

So.
Egg bundle - Alright idea, but I think we'd have to tweak the numbers on this quite a bit. Any regenerating items also have the chance to have an impact on medic's playrate.

Slowness Removal - Blindness prevents sprint so this won't really do anything at all.

Pearling - This makes ninja capping against a pyro with frenzy nearly impossible. Pyro now takes 3 shots from a buffed ninja to kill, so that's not on the plate either. Previously you could steal with fire res, tank a frenzy hit and survive on half a heart after your pearl hit (7.5 + 2 = 9.5/10). With this change that would effectively be an instakill.

I'd personally like to see a slight cooldown on throwing the enderpearl again once it has landed. The main issue I see with ninja isn't related to the damage or combat power, it's the fact that the class gets to constantly use that combat power due to the insane mobility that it has.

Something I'd like to note here at the end.
The recent buffs to elf/pyro will likely reduce ninja's playrate by a slight amount, so let's wait and see where the game is after these changes have come into play then go from there.

 

no thats a terrible idea can u refrain from using the forums

 

I thought you just spaced it weird, but no you actually wrote in white. That took me far longer than it should have to figure out.

 

Sorry mom

 

STOP STEALING MY IDEAS FOR POSTS NOW I HAVE TO GO DO SOMETHING ELSE.

Tbh I think Ninja is still pretty overpowered and it shows just by how many people use it. I agree being a counter to classes isn't inherently the problem, but Ninja's ability to hard counter much of the classes is still annoying, and how it's own hard counters (Heavy and Engineer) cannot catch up to it most of the time makes it much harder to get rid off then you might think.

Also the passive regeneration of Ninja makes Ninja much more long lasting than other classes. Hit a soldier enough times and they have 1 or 2 steak. Probably not safe to cap anymore. This is not the case with Ninja. If they survive, they heal enough and they continue what they are doing. Even if they die, they can quickly get back to where they need to.

Also Ninja's versatility is pretty aggravating. Ninja is the only class aside from Medic which excels at every role in the game except maybe midfield.

As a defense, the offensive team will most likely be working on capturing the flag or has too many targets to hit. This makes killing Ninja extremely difficult and often not worth your time because of medics healing them back. Ninja on the other hand can fire back with ridiculous damage that goes uncontested. Not only this, but eggs slow down any escaping attacker and can kill most of the offensive classes bar Heavy/Soldier (which the pyro should be killing anyway).

As a recovery, Ninja has the best mobility out of all the classes. Ninja does a lot of damage and can almost always catch up to the opponent with pearl. They can use redstone to launch a surprise attack on opponents returning to base with the semi 414-ing. Also the eggs slow down the opponent enough that not only the Ninja but also the rest of the team can catch up. I think these capabilities aren't much of a problem. Conversely, I think Assassin should be buffed so it can compete with Ninja as a recovery class. However, my big issue is that this also invalidates Ninja's most glaring weakness, how frail it is. If a Ninja dies trying to recover, it can quickly pearl back when their opponent is still running back to their base. This makes Ninja a very hard class to counterplay, because killing it doesn't hurt it as much as say, killing a pyro or an archer or even an assassin might.

As an offense, Ninja's damage output makes it very powerful offensive support. It can eliminate threats like Assassins, Pyros and Chemists.This make a swift recovery extremely difficult unless the opponent uses Ninja as well to kill the original Ninja. This makes Ninja only second to Medic as offensive support as it can eliminate the most common offensive threats. Also ninja capping xd.

Finally, Ninja's are also extremely stupid in groups. Killing 1 Ninja is annoying with speed, redstone and eggs making them hard to hit, while you're a sitting duck with slowness, but it's possible and not a huge deal. The problem is when there are 3-4 Ninjas, you may successfully kill 1, but the rest are no doubt going to kill you. If 3 Ninja do 1 CPS on a Soldier, the soldier has to wall climb away or consume most of their steak because of how much damage it is and how impossible it is to hit that many moving targets.

THAT SAID THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHTS ON CASUAL GAMES; I DO NOT CLAIM TO KNOW NINJAS PLACE IN THE META IN MMR GAMES

With all that said, they won't nerf Ninja. Never ever in a million years. Too many people play Ninja and it will hurt the community very hard (causing many to quit) if they nerf it too hard. Remember the Pyro nerfs? I nearly quit because of that lol, and I wouldn't be surprised if others actually did quit. Brawl needs Ninja to make up its playerbase. Nerfing it is NOT an option, only buffing the other classes to match it will help.

IMO to fix NINJA, we have to buff other classes, or nerf Ninja in small ways. Too many people play Ninja, and CTF will likely die if this classic class is nerfed too hard.

 

Fixed, dark theme messing me up.

 

rip dark themers now ;o
(it's fine, i just found the text eventually and highlighted it lol --of which i agree with-- but if u change the color at all, the theme wont auto change it)