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Brawl's Anti-Cheat (Lack thereof) and how can the community help.

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by minecraftnoob999, Mar 27, 2018.

?

Is this a dumb thread?

  1. Yes!

    6 vote(s)
    20.7%
  2. Yes, but in green.

    10 vote(s)
    34.5%
  3. No!

    13 vote(s)
    44.8%
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  1. minecraftnoob999

    minecraftnoob999 Well-Known Member

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    So, as you might imagine, this is an almost meme-worthy topic with Brawl community members and probably staff alike. July will make 6 sad years of me playing this gamemode, (yes, I'm single with no life and only 1 IRL friend) but I've only recently become more involved with some of the more PVP skilled classes. For some people this may be an easy skill to master within the game, others (myself) not so much. It's taken a lot of time and a **** ton of practice to where I could even remotely consider myself not half bad with Minecraft Combat. I know for some people it can be truly frustrating with the number of cheaters as well as the frequency of these individuals online the server at any given time. Yes, I know, it's just a block game, but after a while, it can get really ****ing old. No one likes to deal with it, especially when one is just trying to enjoy the game.
    Note that this thread is not meant to **** on staff because I've managed servers before in the past - it's not easy work, and whatever work is put in, is mostly voluntary by any staff team. As @Miskey can attest to my 3-4am tagging of him in discord, I've noticed that over the past few months there has been a slight increase in the number of individuals cheating within CTF (I don't play anywhere else on brawl so I cannot make a statement about other servers on the community), but unfortunately it always happens when there isn't a moderator available. This leads me to the origin of this post, the Anti-Cheat system. Here's an example just from tonight.



    I am aware of how complex software design and the programming can get with an anti-cheat system, so I know that this is no easy task, but I sincerely believe that there are improvements that can be made. I've talked with community and staff members alike on this issue on their personal take on what could be done with the system and how to improve it not just for the community but for administrators themselves.

    I'm sure this is more than likely on the #TODO list for Brawl's developers and administrators, but as I said previously, it's complicated and busy work, not to mention having the time to get it done and test it. I do believe with the addition of @redslime, (#devslimeCTF) that we can probably expect changes in the near future, however, I wanted to see if there is a potential way the community can help out - not only with their questions, comments or solutions but also with their skill in programming. With that being said, I have created a project that I believe can help with these issues. Please note that this is completely in the infancy stages and more than likely won't have any usable code within it as of the moment, but I'd like to set the phase for the beginning of some great new ideas within our community and how we can improve the system, as well as create a simple template for those who may already want to get started. This may seem like a challenging task (Completely out of my area of expertise, so I will be learning entirely new technologies with this process), but I believe that with the entire community as a whole we can start working towards a better-improved system that will create a friendly and easier experience for us all.

    Where do we go from here? I have created a really simple google forms document with a few questions related to the experience currently going on now. If possible, I'd like to have as many people fill this out as possible. Its open to anyone who feels they may have something to contribute, whether you're a developer or not.

    You can find that document here.
    You can find the project here.

    Feel free to fork this on Github, if you do, I'll send you the results and information from the forms document.

    - Sig



    i really need a life.

    ps: I apologize for this wall of text that makes Niagara falls look like a flea on a ticks ass
     
    • Like Like x 4
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  2. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    jokes on u thats evans alt XD
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    I'd highly doubt we'd get a new anticheat for servers like CTF, seeing as they'd have to be specially developed and suit the gamemode, but also we would need a coder with a lot of free time and one that understands, how cheats are detected, how cheats are hidden (e.g. Antibots), how the cheats work, am would constantly have to update the anticheat while clients aren't updated with bypasses and limit detection method so to stop false autobans through logs from class abilities.

    However, new anticheats for KitBrawl, possibly raid too would be available publicly but would still need proper testing and may need some adaptability if our hit detection causes some error or anything within those gamemodes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. minecraftnoob999

    minecraftnoob999 Well-Known Member

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    o **** i thought it was ur account my bad :frowning:

    Ok, I do see what you're saying in that regard since CTF is quite a specific gamemode. From what I know of the CTF source, I could probably try to implement something to address those questions. As far as adaptability, that is where the real challenge with coding comes into play. Some individuals have gone as far as creating systems that use machine learning and neural networks to detect and train anti-cheat systems. From what i've seen on the spigot forums, this can be quite a complicated process. As for testing and using whatever code is submitted to this project, I don't care who uses it or what anyone does with it. I will try to work on this as much as possible, but I feel that opening it up to the community, there is a better possibility of improving the system.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
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  5. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    I feel you're referring to hypixel for machine learning, I'm fairly certain that's was proved to be a lie, and as far as anticheats go they're all mainly created for servers that are pure PvP and no abilities involved.
     
  6. ArcticGalaxy

    ArcticGalaxy Leader and Representative of The Crusaders

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    I mean at least brawlbot has the ability to actually catch hackers, even though it isnt 100% correct all the time(hehe). However at least it CAN catch people, hypixels sometimes gets the job done but more often than not the hacker on hypixel goes unpunished. So while brawlbot does have major flaws I don't think its really worth the effort/ time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  7. Cardonation

    Cardonation CTF JMOD | CMS Leader

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    As stated previously, the anticheat does what it needs to do and is good enough at its job.
     
  8. Slithium

    Slithium Wild West Sheriff | Revive HG

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    What I find funny is the amount of times I've been banned by the anti-cheat but the actual cheaters barely ever get banned

    Edit: This posted 4 times what the
     
  9. Industrious

    Industrious Staff Manager
    Retired Staff

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    Trying to make the anti cheat work accurately 100% of the time is extremely hard to do, especially on a server like ctf. For what it is, I think the anticheat does a good enough job, even though it’s obviously not always correct. It does take care of the blatant cheaters (most of the time), and Mods can take care of the ones that somehow managed to avoid it
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Slithium

    Slithium Wild West Sheriff | Revive HG

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    For me, its just the fact that I've only been falsely autobanned once on one other server, out of EVERY server I've ever played on
     
  11. minecraftnoob999

    minecraftnoob999 Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm referring to the system developed by konsolas on Spigot forums. Hypixel's anticheat is laughable at best. There have been a few open source options that have recently come out to the public, however, they are still under development.

    This past week or so there have been some stupid blatant ones. Headsnapping, FF, KA, and even flying. Literally, have to get a staff member on because that is the only way they get caught. It has obvious flaws, and it's annoying.

    So you have an Anticheat system that is just left as is, while more efficient, complex and harder to detect clients are being created and modified every day. Eventually, the system won't be able to keep up, and one will be left scrambling to find a fix.
     
  12. Pizze

    Pizze Well-Known Member

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    must be his ping haha
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Industrious

    Industrious Staff Manager
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    Hence I said many get caught, but not all. I do occasionally see some blatant hackers on that still manage to avoid anti cheat, so I get where you’re coming from. :thumbsup:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Recovs

    Recovs Unknown Member

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    I've seen servers make a dedicated anti cheat client and require the client to be used on their server. I think that's a great idea to do, but most likely some people would lag more or something if it doesn't have a fps booster in it and that works properly.
     
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  15. BrandinoB

    BrandinoB Well-Known Member

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  16. Removers

    Removers KitBrawl Ex-Mod!

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    All of these public anticheats sure might be good but without our own coder with the knowledge to edit the anticheat for our gamemodes while keeping its effiency there isn't much we can do.
     
  17. Nakatago

    Nakatago Well-Known Member

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    In all seriousness though, I think the main reason Brawl will never get a good anticheat is majorly due to the fact many regular players would get banned. Not only would this kill off a reasonably large chunk of the community (which Brawl obviously cannot afford to let happen), but would also cause a massive amount of conflict with banned players making threads etc complaining about "how **** the anticheat is" - since they got banned.
     
  18. Fig_Newtonz

    Fig_Newtonz Active Member

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    Recently client-side anti cheats have started to gain popularity in the pvp community. The Badlion client and CheatBreaker are two examples of these. The most comparable thing to these would be Labymod, except these use their own launcher. At the moment, it is pretty much impossible to use a ghost client or any other hacked client for that matter on one of these clients. Therefore it is less likely by orders of magnitude that someone will be cheating if they are using this client. It is not likely that brawl has anywhere near the resources to develop their own client, but I think that it is an interesting new way servers are combatting the increasing sophistication of ghost clients.
     
  19. Deppuccino

    Deppuccino Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, soon our AI overlords will take the moderators' positions and start efficiently banning every single hacker. They can do it 24/7, as they do not have to worry about basic human requirements like food and water.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. lnformative

    lnformative Well-Known Member

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    Why use server side when client side is way more effective lol. Yes I do realize the cost but it's a fraction of the cost you'd pay for good staff, no ssing and still having a good anticheat.

    In all seriousness it's brawl, the games aren't really something to sweat on (lmao says me) in the first place. I'm 99% sure the only reason most of y'all still play is because of the community and just having fun with your squad.

    Or I mean, you could be part of 0.5% of people that still use the forums in effort to feel accepted in society and as a way to escape from ur depression when Your lie in April only causes more crying looool
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
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