Wave XIV Testing Phase and Voting

recovering is actually pretty difficult on the map because it's so large, so maybe removing them would be beneficial. it takes a long time to get across, even with the distance sponges.

 

@pandaniel_ow Personally not a huge fan of having invisible blocks right in front of a spawn, it would be better to move the whole spawn to a neighboring room and removing any barriers. Use glass if you need to have it see through, so people know there is actually a block in front of them.

 

@November maybe add an additional dropdown hole into your ceiling? i'm getting blocked from entering the flagroom. also about 35 players on rn, that might contribute.

Or double soulsand on the bottom of that original dropdown, i cant seem to hit the puddle.

 

is this what you mean?

 

More soulsand imo (you can cover with carpet to keep it from slowing players) at the bottom of that initial drop

Maybe an even smaller hole in the top. More for player entry than exit. Either a 1 block, 3x1, or 2x2 (and trapdoors if the floor can reach up to close them)

@November ^ edited my reply a bit after thinking on it.







----------------

Map feedback
Hi 3:47am on phone cant sleep pardon typos
Disclaimer: these are things I'm currently seeing, other people may disagree or see something complety differently.

331769 - Airborne by @Shawn_ and @THECOMMANDER5643
I think this map could turn into something really great with traffic flow tweaks if it doesn't make it in this time. Backing that spawn position helped a bit, but I think pushing those halls entries more forward would be better. Better navigability between the top and bottom levels around quarter-mid. Those side passages under the surface are hard to find access to when recovering as well,access to that can be made more obvious.

408999 - Bazaar by @DeZilla
I like the concept, but I only experienced the map when the server was busy and ended up dying a lot. The spawn layout had me almost running directly into their spawn a few times. I like the clean multilevel feel and was able to navigate up and down with very little to no fall damage, so that was neat. Already mentioned other things I had seen to you.

369836 - Cliff Palace by @Daveeeeeeeee
I already mentioned spawn direction before, others mentioned barriers,but we know this map was more of an aesthetic experiment.

408168 - Deserted by Daveeeeeeeee
Mid got archer-y, and the bridges became archer targets. Very pretty but also frustrating. I think if the single tunnel was made into two lugia-style tunnels it would've worked better. Flagroom shape felt like blackout, but I kinda liked it. Edit: I honestly don't think a bunch of stuff should be added to clutter mid, the current feel is really nice. Might be other ways to nerf the snipes.

332124 - Modern Diversity by @Ducksfan101
I looked for more sponges on the front of the building to reach the top mlg spong and didn't find any, so that might be a good addition. Outward spawn direction bugs me but I guess that's a personal thing.

I keep running toward mid looking for additional tunnels to avoid the very middle part because ninjas. I can't remember if I found additional, I'm just remembering the main mid arch at the moment.

336722 - Neil by Exploud
Needs restricts about 10 blocks out from all flagroom openings, engineers were flagshooting. Assassin respawn proximity issues. Archers up top, mages underneath, ninjas a pearl away at any given moment.

242151 - Ravine Ruins by @November
I haven't seen the map since the fixes, does it need a commit? Probably a bit late in the voting game, but I think some tweaking to create better paths/general flow across the map could make it viable for a resubmit. I dislike jumping up blocks personally, and some parts of the map feel like parkour. The proximity to spawn is also kind of an issue, finding a way to move them further apart would be beneficial imo

356913 - Rift by @_featherpaw_
I thought this map would be problematic for recovery because of the trees,but it turns out that archers can camp on things and shoot people down,and players can run straight down mid to catch up with cappers taking outside routes,and I think these are good things. Gameplay is interesting.

I'm still trying to feel this map out, though. I always ended up on it during times when there aren't many players and it gets weird late at night.

331768 - Riot by Shawn_
HmMmMm I think we might be able to lower some builds to reduce fall damage. I've never really used that brick building around mid for anything besides running through,I wonder if reducing it would alter gameplay positively or negatively.

390493 - Spring Spire by @GalaThundR
Standard spire, playable. Can't think of fixes rn, had an enjoyable time last game I played.

377064 - Sunstar by @Dokkedal
Iffy about having to do a 180 every time I come out of spawn for offense, but it's not that big of a detractor. Current setup encourages defense at least. The way that spawn faces the build reminds me of old unholy faith.
I wish I had sponges on that outside edges of the middle cliffs to help heal soldiers. Minor though.

388152 - The Great Wall by @olitree
Very cool and pretty concept, has some game at issues in its current state. The flagroom was way too closed to escape initially, so I tried opening it up a bit. After being able to finally escape the flag hole, I kept getting knocked into the river while trying to cross. A couple of small bridges or fallen-tree-style-logs across would help. Also, there was a ninjas-instantly-everywhere problem where even if I killed a ninja, it would sponge from spawn and pearl right back immediately.

332125 - Versailles by @Evan19119, and Ducksfan101
Unfortunately the map rotation is cursed and didn't want me to ever see this map D: sry no feedback.

Edit: I'll get to rework feedback tomorrow.

Oops tag fails @Exploud @Sayan

 

Just want to say this already, I know Capture II is a disaster, I won't fix it before the map wave is done, I will try my best and redo the project for next wave, if you have any feedback on making it better PM me, thank you

 

Sry obsessiveness not letting me.sleep yet

408675 - Atlantis I by Xelasi
Recent adjustedments - Reduced the caps to 3, fixed some navigation to the boat sponges and adjusted doorways out of the flagroom.
Meme.

404518 - Beaver Creek VI by @Daveeeeeeeee, @puhdgy, @xxMineSheepxx, and @Knaber
The ramp to the flag in the flagroom has been giving me issues when trying to cap. I keep getting knocked off of it, and without having that little space underneath I just get pinned in the sides of the ramp.
I think more lilypads or small 1-block-wide bridges can be added where the current lilypad parkour is. That mid bridge is the traffic hotspot.

307394 - Beaver Creek VI by Insomniac___, @Chucky_Nono, and @Crazy_CTF
Functions fine. Getting stuck in the water at mid is annoying and snipers are still a thing, but that's how the map is built. I'm fond of the watersponges going to the flag.

360870 - Capture I by Daniellll
Daniel is w.i.p. on it

387559 - Divinity's Reach V by @Insomniac__, @LeUniCow, and Insomniac___
I wish those side hallways of the flagroom had access to the roof. Stairs leading down would be nice. Proximity to flag does cause respawn issues, but pretty minor.
Trying to position myself exactly over the sponge in the flagroom to exit the hole is annoying, can you add some guide blocks?
Solid map overall though.

370666 - Futuristic City by @RedwolfWarrior
It still has some of the archer problems and general flagroom mayhem of the initial map. If I can think of any fixes I'll let you know. Paths still choke up through the land arches around the vehicles,I'd still recommend removing excessive terrain.

332203 - Kill Creek VI by Ducksfan101
Already mentioned the stalemate thing, but I think this rework is still pretty solid. I'll try to nitpick if I get on the map again.

410597 - Opposites Collide VIII by puhdgy, and lauten
I'm cursed by the rotation gods on this one,still havent gotten to it

408410 - Pagodas II by pandaniel_ow, and xxMineSheepxx
Fall damage from platform, long distance to flag made it hard for me reach people to medic in time. Had to jump over rivers to get to flag more often than I wanted. im hesitant about having to go down a level in spawn to get to that back sponge, but I see how you intended to direct traffic with it.

393861 - Pagodas II by @puhdgy, Daveeeeeeeee, woolctf, and skysheepp
Fall damage from platform. I got stuck on some outside edges and had to respawn. Haven't played this in a busy enough match yet to get better feedback.

377633 - Pagodas II by Xelasi, and Shawn_
I want to apologize for contributing to the multimap plague.

332126 - Platforms VI by @Ducksfan101, puhdgy, Aykaka, and Daveeeeeeeee
I like the sponges in the flagroom building at the top of the stairs. I've still never used the underground areas.

410145 - Shattered Rift VI by @pandaniel_ow and xxMineSheepxx
I really like the extra hole added through the cliff, it helps. Flagroom has (and has always had) some issues navigating away from it when capping. I've had difficulty getting more than 12 blocks away from the flagroom exit with the flag. Might be a way to make that flow better. A spawn exit toward the flagroom would also be nice. Not sure if it was closed in to prevent sniping.

363724 - Tibetan Seclusion I by @ikemulti
I miss being able to leap from roof to roof, but this map still functions well. I heard someone mention flagshooting, but I haven't been on the map enough times to get a really thorough review.

389443 - Treeline I by @Snowbreak
Solid map. There is an annoying sponge to fix, remind me to show you next time you see me online. Also a tight area that an arch leads to that can be widened by like a block.



I'll try to pick through the metros and quintet falls later. It's easy to get the duplicate maps confused.

Tagfails @Kashyyyk @Redifies

 

Thanks Xelasi, fixed a few of the problems, let me know if there's anything else I can do.

edit: Added an anti-archer wall, added restrictions, changed name, blocked off a spawn exit

Also, if anyone's good at reskinning, give me a shout

 

Bazaar is my favourite map in the testing phase so far. Not because it's balanced, oh no. It's broken as hell: I can headshot someone from literally all the way across the map. But that's the fun part, generally it's the same chaotic joyride you can find on a 50-player Blackout.

 

i made a video of what i thought of the maps if u want it pm me on discord (just a warning, i was pretty ****ing harsh to the ones i really didnt like, and i didnt get to play every map)

just a note for some reason my mic is super ****ing loud in the video so just prepare sorry ill fix it in the future

 

How long is the vid?

I'm kind of hesitant because it gets really discouraging as a map builder if the feedback is more "this map is horrible" than "here is an idea to fix this apparent problem," and I'm not sure which to expect. Your previous feedback has been useful but sometimes leans toward the side of the former.

I'll gladly look through the vid if you want to pm it to me.

---------------------------

I tried my best to transcribe and detoxify the useful bits of info included in the video.

I don't always know what the old/original issues of a map are, but as builders we can probably do a better job of researching those issues before starting on a project and trying to figure out how to make fixes. Pester people, it works most of the time.

Spoiler: Didn't play

331769 - Airborne by Shawn_, and THECOMMANDER5643
Didn’t play.
369836 - Cliff Palace by sportyman56
Didn’t play.
332124 - Modern Diversity by Ducksfan10
Didn’t play.
336722 - Neil by Exploud
Didn’t play.
356913 - Rift by _featherpaw_, Chilled_67, and Fordale
Didn’t play.
331768 - Riot by Shawn_
Didn’t play.
390493 - Spring Spire by GalaThundR
Didn’t play but “it looks cool.”
410597 - Opposites Collide VIII by puhdgy, and lauten
Didn’t play.
389443 - Treeline I by Snowbreak
Didn’t really play much, felt like it favored soldier, maybe archer.

Spoiler: Feedback summaries

408999 - Bazaar by DeZilla
“I really liked.. pretty good. Imperfections made it good, kinda like Blackout's, arguably one of the best ones in testing. Archers could pick off soldiers.”

408168 - Deserted by Daveeeeeeeee
Flagroom good.
Mid too flat and open. Archer op at mid, mages on bridges.

242151 - Ravine Ruins by November
Felt like a copy paste of the flag room from lighthouse with changes.
Kind of liked the quarterfield land arches.
Side ravines felt like a trap.

377064 - Sunstar by Dokkedal
Flagroom is okay, pretty normal.
Midfield felt like a death trap, ended up taking the side routes.
Needs some fine tuning on side routes and mid.

388152 - The Great Wall by olitree
Flagroom is tight and skews toward defense, needs to be opened and made more accessible.
Back entry point hard to access and easy for defense to block off.
Water entries in flag room difficult to take.
“Mid felt flat even though it had cover. Maybe adjust elevation.”

332125 - Versailles by Evan19119, and Ducksfan101
Flatness of the majority of the map made it too easy to get picked off.
Flagroom mostly ok, but stairs were not navigable going down to it and was difficult to take if you weren’t soldier.
In general the design isn’t practical for the CTF game mode.

408675 - Atlantis I by Xelasi
“It’s the same thing as the original without water.”
Didn't like random mid puddle.

404518 - Beaver Creek VI by Daveeeeeeeee, puhdgy, xxMineSheepxx, and Knaber
It’s a little better than Beaver Creek but “it’s the same thing as the original.”
Side mountains not easy enough to access.

307394 - Beaver Creek VI by Insomniac___, Chucky_Nono, and Crazy_CTF
“It’s the same thing as the original.”

360870 - Capture I by Daniellll
“It’s the same thing as the original.”
Open, archers, layout issues, size.
Not enough directional signs.

387559 - Divinity's Reach V by Insomniac__, LeUniCow, and Insomniac___
“I actually liked this map. Was good.”

370666 - Futuristic City by RedwolfWarrior
Reskin, “not bad.”

332203 - Kill Creek VI by Ducksfan101
“It’s the same thing as the original.”
Stalemate issues.
(Pointed mouse at mid and said “this has the same problems.” I'm not sure which problems she meant. -Xel)

360791 - Metro I by Daniellll, and Pavocado
394141 - Metro I by Daveeeeeeeee
383891 - Metro I by puhdgy
Metro layouts are (and have been) confusing in general and there weren’t enough good directional signs.
Preferred the Daveeeeeeeee version.

408410 - Pagodas II by pandaniel_ow, and xxMineSheepxx
“It’s the same thing as the original”
Wan't fond of the lime green wool (or carpets?)
Needed more color coding.

393861 - Pagodas II by puhdgy, Daveeeeeeeee, woolctf, and skysheepp
Liked this version.
“But there’s a lot going on over here (points at rocks along line of trees around log wall)”

377633 - Pagodas II by Xelasi, and Shawn_
“Was okay, middle of the three” but preferred the puhdgy version.

332126 - Platforms VI by Ducksfan101, puhdgy, Aykaka, and Daveeeeeeeee
Liked the changes on top of the mid building and liked getting rid of the big tree.
Platforms is already skewed toward defense and this made it more defensive by completely coaling the inside ring (circle around inside of map that drops into void), soldiers don’t have a chance to climb back up if someone is trying to knock them into that mid ring. Make that area not coal.
Archers still headshotting from mid.
Didn’t use underground tunnels at all.
“Flagroom in a dip and makes it too defensive.” (I’m not sure if she was talking about inside the flagroom or the flagroom itself was lowered. -Xel)

389315 - Quintet Falls I by LeUniCow, and Insomniac__
“This Quintet was pretty ok, not bad.”
Add lily pads to water going across mid.
Still a bit archer OP at quarter field, cover small bridges a bit. (Flatten the walking levels of the arched bridges and raise side walls imo.-Xel)
"Flag pretty good."

410881 - Quintet Falls I by Snowbreak
“It’s the same thing as the original. The only thing changed was spawn.”
“Archers still OP on side hills, soldiers still have advantage on flag room building.”

410145 - Shattered Rift VI by pandaniel_ow, and xxMineSheepxx
“It’s the same thing.”
Disliked flatness of the mid fill but also disliked the random holes in glass. (Could probably terraform differently. -Xel)
Archers still able to pick off mid and flat filled area.
Archers were a main problem of the original map.

363724 - Tibetan Seclusion I by ikemulti
“I liked this and I liked the original too. I like the original flagroom better but this is still pretty good.”

 

it is pretty easy for an archer to shoot down the bridge/stand on the bridge and shoot downwards towards the bottom

inside the flag room

the flatness of mid makes archer even more op b/c they have an even ground to shoot their shots on. the holes do not help w/ the problem; if anything, since they're only a block deep, make it an even worse chokepoint. the entire mid needs jesus rofl

-------------

thanks for summarizing my points, but i would like to add a few more to what i felt were the maps w/ the most problems out of all (which i said in the video, but want to make it explicitly clear to the map makers what problems i had and why i had those problems):

but, before i start, i want to say a nice job to the creators of:
-bazaar
-divinitys reach rework
-quintet falls rework (leunicow & insomniac_)
-tibetian seclusion
-2 of the 3 pagodas'

your maps were very good

all of the other maps were "middle ground", w/ some ranking upper middle (probably like futuristic city and sunstar) and some ranking lower middle (beaver creeks, metros, that one pagodas, etc.)

now to the biggest offenders (imo):

VERSAILLES (@Ducksfan101 @evan1919191919191938u28490810-9):
map is flat as **** lol, even the real garden in the palace of versailles is. b/c its so flat and nothing is really happening, it makes for dull gameplay and awkward imbalances. the flag room is okay, but the stairs were clearly designed to be aesthetic > gameplay b/c if u try to go up them as not soldier then u can find urself having a rough time. the fountain is a mess and doesnt fit anywhere, the 3 block elevations of just trees are placeholders that don't do anything. it would've been a lot better if you guys would've incorporated the actual palace of versailles (i mean the hall of mirrors is iconic af) and some of the surrounding walls, to give the map life and to help balance it. and maybe yknow...make an actual gardens, put a twist in your own way. b/c it looks nothing like versailles, it looks like a flat world i generated in singleplayer.

CAPTURE I (@pandaniel_ow ):
you acknowledged that you already know the problems, so im going to go through this quick. mid needs jesus himself, it is completely flat and dull. nothing exciting is happening, and if you go straight there is 0 protection from anything. it is a massive battlefield basically. overhaul the flag room, mid, etc. make the map your own.

KILL CREEK 6 (@Ducksfan101 ):
same old **** as kill creek 4. nothing meaningful changed; fixed none of the problems w/ kill creek 4. the flag room is the same bull**** as before, the bridges are still plagued by archer horizontally and downwards towards the river on the bottom. the river/trees area is exactly the same, in a bad way. archer still plagues the **** out of this map. the same stalemates are still happening. my point is, this isn't a ****ing rework this is worldediting different blocks into kill creek 4, and there's no point in having the same map in rotation twice. innovate the map in your own way and change the problems killcreek has. revamp the flag room. close the gap b/w top and bottom to help prevent stalemates. change the bridges design in a meaningful way to stop archer from shooting down the bridge in a straight line and camping the bottom half of the map.

PLATFORMS 6 (@Ducksfan101, @puhdgy, @Aykaka, and @Daveeeeeeeee):
u guys did the worst possible thing u could've done to platforms -- u made it more defensive while still letting archer go on a rampage. coaling the sides allows for soldiers to lose their only ****ing ability; the wall climb. coaling the sides basically means that u might as well not play soldier b/c going up = headshot and falling off = impossible to get back up. that's if u can even make it out of the flag room. the flag post is now in a dip, and it's even more defensive op than it already was. archer is still putting in so much work, the sides are the same old **** (getting headshot and w/e). i didn't think the original platforms was that bad of a map but obviously archer and mid were issues, the flag i always thought was more defensive based but that's fine; not every map can be offense biased. but, your guys flag room literally took "a bit more sided towards defense" to "very sided towards defense" and honestly that's really not good, plus the coal, and THEN still keeping extremely archer op. maybe do more than just trees for "cover", revert the flag room/change it to be unique and more balanced, and either get rid of the underground/make it more useful. i hate to say it, but this is worse than the current platforms.

QUINTET FALLS 1 (@snowbreak ):
its like you took the original quintet falls, changed the spawn, and submitted it. that means you fixed none of the problems that the original quintet falls had (dog**** flag room, archer, etc.) . see the other quintet falls that was submitted this way to get an idea for how to rework your version. it is just hard for me to give you advice when you literally didn't change anything from the original...

SHATTERED RIFT 6 (@pandaniel_ow, and @xxMineSheepxx ):
fixed none of the problems w/ the original shattered rift. as i said before, the flatness of mid makes archer even more op b/c they have an even ground to shoot their shots on. the holes do not help w/ the problem; if anything, since they're only a block deep, make it an even worse chokepoint. the bridges provide no meaningful protection and the sponges to cross to the other side of mid are also chokepoints of archer. mid needs an entire overhaul b/c its plagued by archers and getting over to the other side is nearly impossible b/c they all camp on top of the hill. i think you guys could do a lot of cool and creative things w/ the mid area of this map to help fix some of these problems, like elevating the bridges upward to make like an arch (but obviously a bit more pretty than that) and then editing the glass to make better terraforming and not a flat archer chokepoint. fix the hill camping, etc. but rn it is completely flat and not good at all and does not fix the original shattered rift's problems..

Thanks @Xelasi for summarizing my points, just wanted to add a little extra for the ones that i really did not like..

 

@Lugia_ do you feel better? That sounded like a lot of pent up aggression. I hope it helped. I wanna take you out to some batting cages. Picture the balls as ctf maps.

 

i honestly did not mean to come off as so aggro except for a couple of intentional digs; i just struggle to explain w/o sounding like a *****.. i tried to add some suggestions in hopes that it would not seem so aggro. sorry if it comes off the wrong way i did not mean for a lot of that to

edit i reread a lot of what i said sorry i did not realize how terrible i worded a lot of that ... but i hope the problems that i had at least are apparent and noted, i will try to word myself more “professionally” next time

 

sorry, but i feel the need to write this post, since I find what you're saying in defaming my work of art masterpiece (just kidding, i dislike some parts of it too) to be incorrect.

because rebuilding most of the map from the ground up with the exception of the middle castle and bridge (and a few other things, which i kept for nostalgic feel - probably should have changed some a bit more) isn't changing anything. if you want to go into further detail you can pm me, but i suggest looking at the original quintet falls and then looking at mine on mcbuild: (ids 690 and 410881). I do agree that I could have changed more about the map from when I submitted it since last wave, but it got decent results (ingame at least, but it along with the spire got trashed on forum voting) so i only made a few changes from that last one.

Spoiler: the original, resubmitted

the same dog**** flagroom/building

vs

-----------------------------------------------

vs


-to clarify, i levelled the entire flagbuilding from the original and rebuilt it - thats why the top parts of the towers don't line up like on the original
any advice on why the current building/flagroom is dog****, in your opinion? -PM me!

-----------------------------------

what is that? an underground tunnel that takes you from the flagbuilding to practically midfield? and since its a flipped map like the original you can also take the tunnel on your side as well? how convenient to avoid all that 'archer opness' of the original quintet (which i dont even remember happening much, its not like blackout where its an open mess, there's a **** ton of obstacles on quintet falls that block shots - i got headshot a **** ton more on that other quintet remake actually.

-----------------------------------
there may be some sponges you missed? a lot of people on the map do, it's something they have to learn over time i guess. they help you avoid archers also:


the one above spawn takes you practically to midfield, but if that one isn't preferred then the one above the building outside spawn takes you up to the castle - where you can proceed to hit any archers up there down to their death with joy!
(again, you may have seen these sponges or may have not, but whenever I played nobody ever used them.)

sorry if i sounded a bit rude. this post doesn't probably mean much since i doubt its making the wave anyway.
thank you for the feedback though, its probably only the second bit of feedback ive gotten (besides from xelasi) since I first made the rework in early 2017. if i ever try to resubmit it again, ill be sure to change a bunch more things up with mid and other areas to give it that rework feel.

EDIT: i see you guys made some posts in the time i wrote this, my bad

 

thanks for the screenies, i will admit i missed the underground. but when i played it, i felt like i had some of the same issues w/ the old flag room w/ the new one (i think its a location problem.) imo it would be better to bring the flag room maybe down a level then open it up to make it wider. imo it is too tight and falls into the same problems the original did. i always thought quintet had an archer problem b/c of its open bridges and overall kind of flatness and i felt that on your version too...missed the sponges, however. when i played the map tho, i didnt feel significant changes that felt really much different from quintet (as a soldier player) so i was not a fan of it as it felt quite a bit too similar to the original for my liking...i think its better to sometimes ditch the nostalgic feel and change what is better for gameplay purposes, even if it sacrifices some of the originals charm

 

Honestly at least it's feedback, may be harsh but the majority of it is true and accurate imo.

 

I'll bring some extra tokens for you too ^^