Idea Instakill Pyro Rework

i think that its to good for pyro

 

Overall creative rework that has some dynamic additions and subtractions from the current pyro. The armour of this rework to me is the most worrisome part, I understand it’s a worthy payoff for the ability to instakill but could also lead to a pyro being taken down quite easily by supporting ninjas and bulks coming into the flagroom. Taking mage as an example, it’s currently a 3 shot as a ninja and with steak being occasionally unreliable this may lead to pyros being taken down a little too easy. I’d almost say buff the armour a little bit but that’s just my opinion.
Overall it’s cool and definitely worth discussing further, even after the small amount of discussion in the CTF discord! Good work!

 

use pyro + mage defense and the flag will be untouchable

 

too op imo

 

I’ll be pretty short with the response and just say that I personally love this idea. It might be my favorite idea for a good pyro rework. I dislike the frenzy mechanic, it seemed like a dice roll for if someone would live or die. With the insta kill back pyro returns to the glass cannon it’s meant to be.

 

This is a good rework as it limits pyro's ability to recover in stalemates, which is something I don't think should be a thing.

 

I like it, the only negative is that maps that are defensive are going to get even more defensive, such as; Dragon Valley. I also don't like the idea of the pyro being able to be healed with mage regen, and i'm also on the edge of medic regen too. As FireTurtle said, a mage in flagroom now would actually be great with this, which im not complaining about, but it's still strong. A mage would be able to give regen to the pyro, freeze offenders for easy insta kills, and also ignite players to be insta killed. It also makes elf more useful, which is also a positive for me, however if I was a bulk, or soldier offence main I would totally not be happy with this buff to pyro lol. I personally don't think pyro (if this buff happens) should be able to get regen at all, otherwise, I would be happy with this pyro buff. Edit - I think not adding regen would also mean less defensive medics, which is a positive as webs + pyro insta kill is not a thing the game needs, ever.

 

I think pyro is fine as it is, yes it has become a bit less powerful with the reduced pick up timer and new threats such as scout and the increasing number of elves but it is still very viable in my opinion, and the frenzy allows it to be efficient even when it is not exactly at the flag post. So now, the pyro just has to be a bit more mobile, which makes it probably more enjoyable to play. A very small buff wouldn't hurt though.
Moreover, I don't think bringing back an instakill would be a great idea, normally you would prefer to reduce the number of instakill abilities instead of increasing it because an instakill is frustrating for the opponents and leads to a less skillful gameplay (if one hit = one kill, it's more luck based).
Also, even with the buff of chemist recently, classes are overall less powerful as when pyro had instakill. Bringing back pyro instakill would make offense a lot less enjoyable, as you would have to deal with a very poweful roaming and core defense, which would be contradictory to the recent update goals. Basically, having an elf on offense would become absolutely necessary (water element), which I'm not sure is a good idea for the diversity of classes.
This rework also removes the strength of pyro on recovery (the only situation where it could be decent is if the other team doesn't have roaming at all and the pyro can hide literally 2 blocks away from the carrier), which is not so good because stalemates are already a problem at the moment.
If we really were to bring back pyro instakill though I think this is the right rework.

 

Bringing back Instakill won't solve anything. We already have assassin and archer. Trust me you don't want instakill back lmfao. Also, this would just make offense even more useless as you would have archer assassin AND pyro once again just one shotting you. So yeah no

 

I believe most of the community (at least in the polls in the ppm discord) want pyro to have increased survivability and this tweak does not give pyro increased survivability but instead makes it even worse. This will mean that it would die almost instantly to ninjas and make the class even easier to deal with for the offense. Even so with the instakill change, with no flint and steel the pyro really doesn't have a reliable way of setting people on fire since pyros can miss bow shots and just be distracted while someone is entering the flagroom (especially with something called water element), making it harder for pyro to recover off the flag carrier. As per what @DTJ5511 said, I don't think a revert to instakill isn't going to do much for pyro as a whole.

 

I like the overall gameplay concept for this Pyro suggestion, but it does seem just a bit overpowered as is. What if the Pyro has 3 steaks max, remains able to be fully restored by Medics, but instead of gathering more steaks the Pyro instantly gains 4 full hearts after a successful instakill sort of like how an Assassin is healed when an assassination is successful? One drawback I'd suggest though would be that instead of arrows causing a blast that sets everyone in the area on fire, ONLY the enemy that is directly hit by the fully-drawn arrow would burn for that shorter (2.5 second) period of time.

As far as protecting against surprise Ninjas, as an Archer main I know that with this new Pyro mechanic requiring the bow to set enemies on fire, a serious Pyro will likely spend most of their idle time in a good spot with their bow already fully drawn in wait. This way, if and when a Ninja appears the Pyro can turn and instantly fire a fully-drawn shot. As currently suggested for a Pyro rework, the Pyro would just have to aim the shot at the ground and release that arrow if a Ninja attacks and the blast would set the Ninja on fire...and then that risky Ninja would be at a huge disadvantage. But if the Ninja has to actually be hit by the shot, then it makes the fight a bit more fair since the Ninja can potentially dodge the shot and attack a few times before another shot is fired at full draw. A few missed shots in a row and the Ninja could take out the Pyro easily, but with a couple steaks available a Pyro could heal a bit and switch to swinging their axe at a Ninja to try taking advantage of the Ninja's low armor as a strategy instead. If 1v1, a Ninja who is taking a few too many hits might have a chance to run off, crouch behind a barrier, and heal up a bit since they will only be hurt by the Pyro's fire if an arrow is able to hit them directly. The battles seem to me like they'd be more balanced this way, because as the Ninja runs off to heal the Pyro can advance, run off toward help, seek a Medic to refill them completely, or allow more time for backup to arrive in a case like flag room defense.

If an Elf and Ninja try to take out an enemy Pyro, that water element's aid would give a huge advantage to the Ninja but 2v1 is supposed to be unfair. If the Pyro has a Medic on their side then the Ninja may not last as long with that Elf, especially if the Pyro is able to regain 3 steaks back when healed effectively. And in this scenario if they both survive that Ninja being defeated, then the Elf would be alone facing against both of them and the tables would be turned.

The only really unfair battle I can predict for this potential Pyro rework is, as you mentioned, against an Elf. If both are fully aware of the battle, that water element would prove very deadly for the Pyro...healing the Elf AND cancelling out all fire...harsh. With the Elf also wielding a dangerous sword and having similar armor, Elf would be another "bane class" for Pyro (adding to the list which already contains Medic).

 

For the people that don’t know McPvP had the system like this pretty much the axe was a instant death if your on fire people thought it was annoying that’s probably why it was removed a couple years after the McPVP merge.

 

Oneshot classes are the last thing this server needs in a casual setting. Melee oneshots with no immediate counter are overpowered, period. Everyone will buy (or main) Pyro and go on a killing spree, and you'll have 30 new Arsonists the first week after it releases. Pyro has proven to be a strong and vital defense class throughout all of its changes, simply for the fact that frenzy is still nearly a oneshot. Returning to oneshot Pyro would make PPMs impossible without hard Assassin offense, as experienced Pyros such as ghenry would recover within 2 seconds of a steal every time unless they mess up on their own. We all have to understand that no class is going to preform at its intended level at any given time on casual CTF, as barely any players play objectively consistently. The steak earning idea would also turn Pyro into an Immortal massacre machine under the right circumstances, considering regs chill with regs and don't bother anyone farming randoms at 2am.